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Fire mageing (again)
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Post by
greywolfsage
Greater haste stacking as Arcane allows for greater forgiveness from moving around (so you know, you don't die).
It also probably ends up balancing out.
Stacking Mastery gives each spell "more" punch, but you don't get to full stack quite as soon in the same time frame, as stacking lots of haste.
And as I understand it, the "conserve" phase is figuring out how many AB's you can let off while staying above 90% anyway, which is more reliant on getting in Mage Armor ticks, while still doing sufficient damage.
Post by
xavierpjg
Ok i tested it, wasted about 60 gold just to test this and annoyed my guildies by asking them to wipe twice on bh lol.
These are without mirror image, timewarp, flame orb, or pots, ets......
Arcane forged with 17 hit, 13 haste, 16.5crit and 16 mastery (going off the equip stat screen)
15.5-18k dps
forged away from mastery for more haste and crit
12.5-15k dps
With mastery and Total burn (including draconic and volcanic)
35-40k dps
Without Mastery 21-26k dps
So from these results we can gather that mastery adds more than a small margin to our dps. >10k during our burn phase.
This was tested on 2 different attempts on argaloth. I realize you would have to run more to get a more accurate percentage. We are doing bwd tonight, and there is one other mage i believe is specced for arcane. So i'll run without mastery tonight and see how we both do throughout the raid. ( Although i already pull more dps than him so not sure if thats reliable either.)
As for above post, I was pondering that myself, for a while now actually, with the mage armor and mana regen. Haste lowers your AB cast time. Does mage armor keep up with this? It would seem to me if it doesn't then having "too much haste" would hurt you. Does the armor have a set mana regen or does it regen mana quicker with the more haste you have also?
P.s. And if your going to go into raid buffs and all that, it was the same buffs with both setups. However if you really want i'll go test on the raiding dummy lol.
Post by
greywolfsage
It says right in the tooltip that Mage armor returns 3% mana every 5 seconds. Or like 3.6 with the glyph if my memory of my math is correct. Nothing I've seen says that it scales with your haste.
That test is a step in the right direction, however:
Like you've already stated, entirely too small a sample.
Did you go into burn phase the same way? We're you at the same level of mana?
- This can be a factor of how well Mastery is going to play with it.
Were there other raid procs that went off during one but not the other?
By BH I assume you mean Argaloth. Who is the best Patchwerk fight, but usually you don't get that sort of uninterrupted turreting for boss fights, which also effects how those stats interact with your dps.
- Depending on how much moving you do, you spend more time regening than spending mana, meaning each cast you are managing to get off is getting a little more 'omf'.
- By the same token, the extra haste is allowing for more casts on the run, if you keep the cast time short you can still be dealing effective damage (like Argaloth fel-flame, has a "timer" before your chosen spot gets immolated.)
Post by
xavierpjg
the conserve phases were from start to first felstorm. Then the burn phases were after the felstorm with me at full mana. I understand where your coming from with the haste. However now i ponder the benefits of being able to cast that quickly when dealing with the mana regen.
oh yeah bwd got canceled tonight so i guess that test will have to wait.
Post by
151788
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138583
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Post by
xavierpjg
Um zakkar, your talking about fire, we're talking about arcane.
Bellrog. How is haste going to be more effective than mastery during the burn phase when with 13 haste you reach the GCD limit? Having more haste isn't going to allow you to cast faster than the GCD
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151788
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Post by
xavierpjg
Ok we need to find out the ratio of unspent mana: damage. Haste would seem to have its benefits as well as mastery. Because of the fact that you should never be OOM, mastery would always have some benefit. We need to find out how much at different mana lvls.
Post by
nickseng
Um zakkar, your talking about fire, we're talking about arcane.
Bellrog. How is haste going to be more effective than mastery during the burn phase when with 13 haste you reach the GCD limit? Having more haste isn't going to allow you to cast faster than the GCD
Because Haste reduces the GCD as well?
Besides, unless you're burning in time with Time Warp, you don't have to worry about running into the GCD. Hence, more haste allows you to cast more during your burn phase, taking advantage of your Mana Gem SP, Trinks and AP buff.
Post by
greywolfsage
Um zakkar, your talking about fire, we're talking about arcane.
Bellrog. How is haste going to be more effective than mastery during the burn phase when with 13 haste you reach the GCD limit? Having more haste isn't going to allow you to cast faster than the GCD
Because Haste reduces the GCD as well?
Besides, unless you're burning in time with Time Warp, you don't have to worry about running into the GCD. Hence, more haste allows you to cast more during your burn phase, taking advantage of your Mana Gem SP, Trinks and AP buff.
Anecdote!
My AB gets down to .982 or something cast time. I'm fairly sure that the GCD is at about .7 there.
I never have problems chain casting.
And I think the GCD goes down to .5 at the farthest.
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783051
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303016
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Post by
greywolfsage
Well, when I'm casting at the .9 cast time, I can easily chain cast. The little swirly that denotes the GCD is well past finished, and my spell is still casting.
I know recently haste has been playing a bigger role, but I can't find any articles on it, only what I have seen with my own eyes and worked around with my own keystrokes.
Edit:
To clarify:
18% haste
(24% with haste buff, grabbed a spriest to test)
Full AB stack
Warp.
I get .893 cast time. GCD is still significantly done before my cast finishes.
Post by
nickseng
Um zakkar, your talking about fire, we're talking about arcane.
Bellrog. How is haste going to be more effective than mastery during the burn phase when with 13 haste you reach the GCD limit? Having more haste isn't going to allow you to cast faster than the GCD
Because Haste reduces the GCD as well?
Besides, unless you're burning in time with Time Warp, you don't have to worry about running into the GCD. Hence, more haste allows you to cast more during your burn phase, taking advantage of your Mana Gem SP, Trinks and AP buff.
Anecdote!
My AB gets down to .982 or something cast time. I'm fairly sure that the GCD is at about .7 there.
I never have problems chain casting.
And I think the GCD goes down to .5 at the farthest.
Hmmm, weird
I have way over 13% haste, and my AB never goes below 1 second cast time unless under Time Warp.
Post by
303016
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138583
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Post by
xavierpjg
I still wanna know the ratio for arcane mastery. Dealing with exactly what percent to damage is needed for how much unspent mana. That is the only true way this conflict will be resolved.
funny thing is i started this forum cause i was acquiring a seperate set of gear for fire. how the hell did we get onto this discussion. It maybe the beer talking.
Post by
151788
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