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New tank trinkets suck!/?
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Post by
Orranis
I find myself currently in possession of Scales of Life, Mirror of Broken Images and Symbiotic Worm. My guild is about to begin working on Firelands in the next week or so, I was wondering if there are different combinations of these three that would be better or worse for different bosses?
Having tanked 2/7, and done 3/7, for Shannox I'd say Scales/Symbiotic Worm, especially if you're tanking Shannox, there's very little unavoidable magic damage and when he gets a 60% damage increase an Arc Slash+Melee combo can very easily insta-gib you, especially as a DK, plus rending tear. However, if you're Healers are having mana issues and you're not worried about tank death, drop Scales for Mirror.
For Beth, Mirror/Symbiotic Worm if you're up-top, and I wouldn't know for down-low. While you can get pretty low pretty easily with the combination of AoE and melee, Mirroring the AoE and magic damage is a huge help. On the flip side, if you're dying in phase two even while chaining cooldowns, you may want to pick up Scales.
Post by
561612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
807450
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
DraconisAerius
As an avoidance built DK, I would pick the Stay of Execution over anything. The way I see it: if you dodge/parry an attack, you are mitigating 100% of the damage. Avoidance always has a chance of proccing on EVERY hit depending on your overall avoidance. Mastery is tied down to your rune CDs and Death Strike. You use Death Strike once, you get maybe 2 hits worth of mitigatible damage. What happens after that? Your runes are on CD, you're completely defenseless against the boss' next few attacks. With avoidance, you can take comfort in knowing that EVERY SINGLE POSSIBLE ATTACK has a chance at causing 0 damage. /end rant
Yes... a chance... something that only might happen rather than something that is guarenteed to happen. The only way the heavy avoidence works is if you stack it to massive levels so that you can have Bone Shield up all the time, if at any point you don't have BS up, you're screwed. Please go ready the stickies and stop being bad.
Post by
Fjh13
As an avoidance built DK, I would pick the Stay of Execution over anything. The way I see it: if you dodge/parry an attack, you are mitigating 100% of the damage. Avoidance always has a chance of proccing on EVERY hit depending on your overall avoidance. Mastery is tied down to your rune CDs and Death Strike. You use Death Strike once, you get maybe 2 hits worth of mitigatible damage. What happens after that? Your runes are on CD, you're completely defenseless against the boss' next few attacks. With avoidance, you can take comfort in knowing that EVERY SINGLE POSSIBLE ATTACK has a chance at causing 0 damage. /end rant
Yes... a chance... something that only might happen rather than something that is guarenteed to happen. The only way the heavy avoidence works is if you stack it to massive levels so that you can have Bone Shield up all the time, if at any point you don't have BS up, you're screwed. Please go ready the stickies and stop being bad.
But stacking to said massive levels is nigh impossible due to diminishing returns. Whereas mastery stacks in a linear fashion, no DR, so it is better at higher gear levels. I agree wholeheartedly with DraconisAerius on this.
The way I gear is that I reforge and gem mastery, but when a piece already has mastery on it, I reforge for dodge = parry. I'm sitting on 157% Blood Shields and about 30% combined avoidance (32% if you count my Nelf racial). I love how I have so much more control over my survivability due to DS and Blood Shield.
Post by
DraconisAerius
I also try to make sure I have at least some hit and a bit more expertise, to make your DS more likely to count in those moments when you really really need it to.
Post by
Zakkhar
I also try to make sure I have at least some hit and a bit more expertise, to make your DS more likely to count in those moments when you really really need it to.
You dont need to make sure about that. its nice, but certainly nothing you need to make sure about. neither dodge, nor parry nor mastery and prolly not even stamina are worth sacrificing for that additional hit/exp.
Post by
Doring
I also try to make sure I have at least some hit and a bit more expertise, to make your DS more likely to count in those moments when you really really need it to.
You dont need to make sure about that. its nice, but certainly nothing you need to make sure about. neither dodge, nor parry nor mastery and prolly not even stamina are worth sacrificing for that additional hit/exp.
But you argue exactly opposite in another thread that sacrificing stam/mastery/avoidance is worth trading for expertise on a weapon so which is it?
Post by
DraconisAerius
I also try to make sure I have at least some hit and a bit more expertise, to make your DS more likely to count in those moments when you really really need it to.
You dont need to make sure about that. its nice, but certainly nothing you need to make sure about. neither dodge, nor parry nor mastery and prolly not even stamina are worth sacrificing for that additional hit/exp.
But you argue exactly opposite in another thread that sacrificing stam/mastery/avoidance is worth trading for expertise on a weapon so which is it?
As someone said in that other thread, it's all about quantity. What he's saying is that it's not worth it to specifically gear for hit/exp if you have an item with dodge/parry/mastery instead. And while I agree to a certain degree in that you certainly don't need to be exp and hit capped, I still think you should have some of those stats to help with threat.
Post by
807450
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
DraconisAerius
As an avoidance built DK, I would pick the Stay of Execution over anything. The way I see it: if you dodge/parry an attack, you are mitigating 100% of the damage. Avoidance always has a chance of proccing on EVERY hit depending on your overall avoidance. Mastery is tied down to your rune CDs and Death Strike. You use Death Strike once, you get maybe 2 hits worth of mitigatible damage. What happens after that? Your runes are on CD, you're completely defenseless against the boss' next few attacks. With avoidance, you can take comfort in knowing that EVERY SINGLE POSSIBLE ATTACK has a chance at causing 0 damage. /end rant
Yes... a chance... something that only might happen rather than something that is guarenteed to happen. The only way the heavy avoidence works is if you stack it to massive levels so that you can have Bone Shield up all the time, if at any point you don't have BS up, you're screwed. Please go ready the stickies and stop being bad.
But stacking to said massive levels is nigh impossible due to diminishing returns. Whereas mastery stacks in a linear fashion, no DR, so it is better at higher gear levels. I agree wholeheartedly with DraconisAerius on this.
The way I gear is that I reforge and gem mastery, but when a piece already has mastery on it, I reforge for dodge = parry. I'm sitting on 157% Blood Shields and about 30% combined avoidance (32% if you count my Nelf racial). I love how I have so much more control over my survivability due to DS and Blood Shield.
To each's own
As long as you are not on my server and not offering advice to other people, you can do what ever you want. By all means, continue being bad.
Post by
Zakkhar
I also try to make sure I have at least some hit and a bit more expertise, to make your DS more likely to count in those moments when you really really need it to.
You dont need to make sure about that. its nice, but certainly nothing you need to make sure about. neither dodge, nor parry nor mastery and prolly not even stamina are worth sacrificing for that additional hit/exp.
But you argue exactly opposite in another thread that sacrificing stam/mastery/avoidance is worth trading for expertise on a weapon so which is it?
I dont. I talk about exp vs crit/haste and a tiny bit of stam/mastery. Please read carefully.
I still think you should have some of those stats to help with threat.
Not threat. Threat is not an issue and never was. Its to help you with confidence of timing death strike. You dont need to cap anything but having a higher chance not to miss/get parried/dodged can certainly change your self confidence in a boss fight. On paper it wont necesarily give you more blood shield or anything, but still its better than ^&*! haste or crit.
Post by
Doring
I also try to make sure I have at least some hit and a bit more expertise, to make your DS more likely to count in those moments when you really really need it to.
You dont need to make sure about that. its nice, but certainly nothing you need to make sure about. neither dodge, nor parry nor mastery and prolly not even stamina are worth sacrificing for that additional hit/exp.
But you argue exactly opposite in another thread that sacrificing stam/mastery/avoidance is worth trading for expertise on a weapon so which is it?
I dont. I talk about exp vs crit/haste and a tiny bit of stam/mastery. Please read carefully.
Yes you do. You talk about trading some stam/mastery/dodge for less stam/mastery/dodge and more expertise. Please stop dodging the fact that you argued both ways.
Post by
Zakkhar
Yes you do. You talk about trading some stam/mastery/dodge for less stam/mastery/dodge and more expertise. Please stop dodging the fact that you argued both ways.
Not gonna get the bait.
Troll harder.
Post by
DraconisAerius
I also try to make sure I have at least some hit and a bit more expertise, to make your DS more likely to count in those moments when you really really need it to.
You dont need to make sure about that. its nice, but certainly nothing you need to make sure about. neither dodge, nor parry nor mastery and prolly not even stamina are worth sacrificing for that additional hit/exp.
But you argue exactly opposite in another thread that sacrificing stam/mastery/avoidance is worth trading for expertise on a weapon so which is it?
I dont. I talk about exp vs crit/haste and a tiny bit of stam/mastery. Please read carefully.
Yes you do. You talk about trading some stam/mastery/dodge for less stam/mastery/dodge and more expertise. Please stop dodging the fact that you argued both ways.
Doring, you are begining to act like a petulant child. Stop it. You are ignoring the realities of the situation to meet your own agenda. Go troll elsewhere, here it is not appriciated.
Post by
Doring
Don't like what I say, then fine. The fact remains it's a clear flip flop, at least if you are going to present yourself as some kind of expert, be consistent. I am sorry that you feel it's beneath you to speak consistently and to accept when you are in error.
Post by
asakawa
I'm just going to drop a post in here in green text to let people know that I'm going to be keeping an eye on this thread. I would very much like for any flaming and arguing to end (particularly arguments about who said what in a completely different thread) and the discussion to get back towards the topic at hand.
Thanks.
Post by
Badaccus
Stop it or I'll spank you all.
Oh come on, i just made some popcorn!
...Sorry, couldn't help myself =D
But, On topic, i do agree the trinkets in and tied to FL does seem a bit meh.
But then again, who back in WotLK didn't carry around 14 trinkets in their bags?
I know I did, and swapping them around according to the fight happened pretty often.
Post by
DraconisAerius
Stop it or I'll spank you all.
Oh come on, i just made some popcorn!
...Sorry, couldn't help myself =D
But, On topic, i do agree the trinkets in and tied to FL does seem a bit meh.
But then again, who back in WotLK didn't carry around 14 trinkets in their bags?
I know I did, and swapping them around according to the fight happened pretty often.
I actually had trouble getting trinkets in wotlk. Took me 3 months to get a specific one I wanted on my Lock.
Post by
Orranis
Yes... a chance... something that only might happen rather than something that is guarenteed to happen. The only way the heavy avoidence works is if you stack it to massive levels so that you can have Bone Shield up all the time, if at any point you don't have BS up, you're screwed. Please go ready the stickies and stop being bad.
That is
not
how heavy avoidance works. I'm often seen arguing against 'avoidance,' this is a misinterpretation. I argue against avoidance as a 'saving mechanic,' because when you're about to die it's stupid to rely on RNG to keep you alive, even Mastery is suboptimal due to the fact that Death Strike isn't always up. You want Effective Health, pure and simple. This is the beauty of Stay of Execution and Spidersilk Spindle, they are guaranteed to remove the damage no matter what.
I'd even prefer a
Ruthless Gladiator's Emblem of Cruelty
in that situation to something that gave me dodge.
Avoidance heavy builds on the other hand, are designed based on the fact that the DK's mastery provides no Combat Table Coverage. Thus, you go 8 seconds without blocking, and much more likely to get burst down than other tanks. An Avoidance Heavy build is accepting that if you're Death Striking, you've already got a high enough shield that you're not going to be bursted down, and is solely based around surviving the 8 seconds in between. This really only comes into play at normal 25 content and onward, (Normal 25, Heroic 10, Heroic 25), and a few select phases or time periods of normal 10, and for anything below that (not including H t11, the likelihood of burst here is still very strong), Mastery is much better.
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