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Is WoW on its deathbed?
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Post by
dumac
Actually, I heard of some organism that doesn't die of old age - your argument is invalid.
There is a few organism who is
litteral immortals
.
Turtles is also one animal who is really interesting to study. The turtle does age very slowly(talking about land turtles here). So you cannot tell the different btw a 1 year old turtle towards a 100 year turtle if you cut them up.
Turtles are really something who can live for several thousend of years, sadly they are still affected by diseases and natural disaster. So it is the major reason they die still.
On the other hand, nothing truly last forever. Sooner or later everything changes, so the concept with immortal is really going against itself.
To the topic more: I do not think wow will die. I do hope they will make another game, kinda like a wow2. As magican said, the game gets old whatever they add for people like me who played since it was released. Would be better if they re did it whole next expansion or at least the one after that.
This is my opinion a way to improve it for many people who feels it getting old.
Post by
Lucsafer
I think that cataclysm was part of this reason.
Post by
minad
WoW gets getting better and is not dieng. He is soon new expansion in sometime. So yes no death bed still. But one more expansion maybe and then i dont know. Or maybe it never dies.
Post by
OverZealous
and Blizzard not caring as much about WoW as they used to
, it's only a matter of time.
Really? Evidence, please? Examples?
Official statements
?
I mean no offense to anyone, but this argument is bull*!@#. If they didn't actually care as much, then why would they be going through
so much
to make the game better for new and old players alike? Why would they
revamp
the entire god damn Old World to vastly improve the questing process and make it a funnier thing to do?
Why would they... really, I just don't know, anything. Please, do explain.
They might not be taking the game in the direction the loud minority may want, but the game is
still
extremely popular and tons of people are very happy with the changes made to the game.
Also; Blizzard is a company. WoW is their main cash-cow. If anything, they will keep caring until something else gets them more money. That is how companies work.
Post by
239153
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
367020
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
OverZealous
I doubt any company is going to come right out and say "Yeah, we don't care anymore, it's official."
My response wasn't all that serious, but either way, a lot of people have been going "OMG BLIZZARD NOT CARE NO MORE" recently, and they all fail to provide evidence as to why that would be the case. On the opposite, Blizzard evidently cares. I just don't see where that's coming from.
We're how many months into Cata? Nearly 8 months? And we've gotten what? Two rehashed instances made into 5-mans, a daily hub, and a new raiding tier. Five months after Wrath released, we had about the same, except it was a brand new 5-man, double the number of total raid bosses, and game functionality like the dual-talent specs. Even if the Firelands raiding tier hadn't of been pushed back, it would still be behind Wrath content.
Wrath launched sometime in January (
3.0.8
), 5 months later, there
was not
a brand new 5-man. Unless you're
seeing
something I don't.
After
eight
months, the same time since the release of Cataclysm, we had a new raid, which consisted of 5 bosses and zero trash. There was a "brand new" 5-man, which worked much the same way as the 5-man. It was an arena with lots of bosses getting thrown at you.
After eight months, that is right now, we've gotten a new raid, 2 new dungeons (or rehashed, if you want to see it that way)and the new daily quest hub on Molten Front that works much the like the superhit that was Isle of Quel'danas.
Also, at the release of Wrath, we got a
rehashed raid
(OH THE HORROR), 2x 1-boss raids... and that was it in terms of raiding. The first raiding tier was a complete joke. It was outleveled and cleared in like 72 hours.
How about instances? Burning Crusade, on release, had 15 instances at launch. Wrath had 12 at launch. Cata? 7, 9 if you go heroic modes. BC added a grand total of 1, Wrath added four, and Cata's added 2, but only in heroic mode
Cataclysm is 80-85, as opposed to Burning Crusade's 60-70 and Wrath of the Lich King's 70-80.
With half the amount of levels to work with, you need to cut down on the instances if people want to do all of them. People wouldn't want to be overwhelmed, either.
If
we'd go mathematical, take a look at this, it's based on your numbers.
BC - 16 instances, 10 levels. 16/10 = 1.6 - 1.6 instances on average, per level.
Wrath - 16 instances, 10 levels. 16/10 = 1.6 - 1.6 instances on average per level.
Cata - 9 instances, 5 levels. 9/5 = 1.8. That's 1.8 instances on average per level. That's the highest average of all three expansions.
How about new zones? Cata we got 5. Wrath? 8, excluding Crystalsong for being empty, and Winterspring for being purely pvp. BC? 8 again. Looking at the number of quests, total, for each zone? It's roughly the same number of quests. Now, I'd need to look at it a bit more closely to determine how many quests each side got, because zones like Mount Hyjal are both factions, which means they'd have more total content than a BC zone with split faction quests. Still, they are quests that have to be designed, which makes them about equal.
Again, there was only 5 levels to work with. Had there been 10 levels, there would obviously have been more zones. But now, Blizzard chose 5 levels, and they chose a more linear questing experience, to make everyone experience the zone in a whole new way.
You can argue that that was a bad move, but some were satisfied, and it seems to be how they're doing questing now. It's easier to navigate, easier to follow, and more fun to experience.
Not everyone may reason like that, however.
This is sort of my problem. Now, yes, there was the 1-60 revamp. There are a number of places that the revamped old world uses old quests with slightly different titles. I also have an issue with the revamp retaining the classic Warcraft spirit, something which is more subjective, but I feel is missing. Hell, Westfall and Redridge rely on pop culture references to their detriment, and this feels like laziness. Why bother coming up with something brand new and completely Warcraft when you can make CSI references?
Now, I am easily amused, and as such I found the blatantly obvious (yet brilliant and hilarious) references to various things to be very good. They were fun. They might have pushed it too far, I won't argue on that, but Uldum was popular, was it not? And that entire zone is made of references.
Now, I'm seeing these upset threads crop up a lot more often than I ever did before. That vocal minority seems to be growing, and with the subscription losses, there's obviously something amiss. Again, it may not be putting WoW on its deathbed, but it isn't helping WoW, and the dissatisfaction is growing. That's a problem, and something Blizzard is going to need to correct, especially with big name MMOs coming out in the near future.
I agree, there are more "The game is bad"-threads now than ever. But that may be associated with the fact that many people who dislike where the game is going and dislike the changes made
keep playing
, as such, they can keep complaining; over and over again.
It may also be associated with the increasing amount of good MMOs popping up (relatively close to each other, too) and the fact that it's more commonly the established players who post on forums, not the new ones.
Also, people who liked the game in Vanilla may have gotten tired by now (and rightly so), they may dislike the huge changes to every aspect a game that was good from the start.
The game is starting to show age, as well, it is over six years old, and has done an remarkable job staying on the top so far, but it is getting outdated.
Post by
lonewarrior
Also; Blizzard is a company. WoW is their main cash-cow. If anything, they will keep caring until something else gets them more money. That is how companies work.
Blizzard is not a sole entity anymore and hasn't been for sometime. If it were, I think the dedication to preserving the quality of this game would still exist. It merged with Activision.
Activision wanted a foothold into the MMO market and why create one when you can just buy one.They also were in competition with EA for market shares.
The history of large corporations merging has not always been met with success. Time-Warner merging with AOL for one example.
Different business philosophies tend to clash at some point.
The merger was approved during the summer of 2008.
We already had Original and TBC.
Although Blizz was suppose to retain autonomy, I think you can see Activision influential foot print all over Wrath...with the introduction of Death Knights, rehashing old contents and a slow steady push away from cerebral aspects to a more hack and slash contents, which is typical of there gaming philosophy.
finally Activision reported net losses of $233-million for fourth quarter 2010. If WoW is their MMO cash cow then unfortunately it is safe to assume profits are being siphoned off and diverted.
Post by
367020
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
OverZealous
The lack of content, the scrapping of content, and the plain ol' lack of effort being shown is what gives those players the impression that Blizzard doesn't care as much.
Fair enough, at least you're able to provide motivation. I disagree - but each to his (or her) own.
Wrath launched in November, actually. Yes, you're absolutely right, my bad.
Ulduar released in April, according the the patch history
here
. That means about the same time we're getting the troll rehashes now, in Wrath we got a new raiding tier with, again, 14 bosses. The TotC raid released in August. Along with Ulduar came the beginning of the Argent Tournament.
You're correct, I made a miscount since I assumed (incorrectly so) that Wrath was released in January.
I can't really argue against the fact that Ulduar was so much better than anything released in Cataclysm or Wrath. However, since we're kind of discussing content and the lack thereof; do you remember how Trial of the Champion and Trial of the Crusader were recieved? What people thought of them?
Besides, right when 3.1 was released, I took a break from the game, so I don't know for certain, but didn't certain parts of the Tournament unlock in 3.2, or was that just the instances?
But anyway, we got 2 new instances when Wrath got 1 raid - now, they're not comparable in terms of quality; that's not what I'm saying, but I kind of think it (almost) evens out with Firelands, since 3.2 was kind of a screw-up in terms of content.
I played in the Isle of Quel'danas era, and Firelands is no Quel'danas, good sir.
To be serious, Wrath still has a leg up on content thus far.
So did I - and I definetly agree. Quel'danas was vastly superior to Firelands.
However, they work the same way. You do dailies over a period of time to unlock the next stage while gaining reputation with certain factions to unlock "powerful" items.
While the quality (and it depends a bit on taste, too, I'd guess) may differ, the concept is much the same.
Wrath raids consisted of Naxxramas (and good god was it boring), Archavon, Obsidium Sanctum, and the Eye of Eternity. BC had Gruul's and Magtheridon, both single boss affairs if memory serves, as well as Serpenshrine Caverns and Tempest Keep. Four seems to be the starting raid number.
Gruul's Lair was a 2-boss raid, I believe, with High King as the first boss.
Let me stop you right here, because this argument makes zero sense. They commented that 80-85 should have been about as long as 70-80 was. Even if it wasn't, having more instances to choose from starting off means you experience each of them less, which means they wear on you less. Especially when we get to heroic mode, where they are all on the table, more variety extends the lifespan of the game. We got less dungeon content with this expansion that the previous two expansions, and that's a problem.
It would appear, with the general direction Cataclysm has taken, however, that they don't want as much variety in the game as before, what with linear questing and all.
I'll respond to this more in depth once I've gotten some sleep, I'm pretty tired and don't want to make (more) mistakes.
Again, 80-85 was supposed to be as long as 70-80. More zones helps spice things up. With Wrath, you could go Borean Tundra or Howling Fjord, then Dragonblight, or both BT and HF and skip Dragonblight altogether. There was more variety in how you could approach leveling, especially without the linearity of Cata.
Well, it was supposed to be, but I don't think it really was.
Anyway, after the revamping of the entire Old World (and many of the quests), I think they may have realized they would run low on time. They wouldn't admit it if that was the case, but that
might
have been what happened.
Pure speculation on my side, however.
I've seen Uldum as a hate it or love it area. A lot of people were not happy with the Harrison Jones questline, and others were not pleased with the completely out of left field nature of the zone. It does nothing but stall the storyline of Cata. It breaks the flow, and is horribly out of place.
Definetly, but that was the point. It had been sealed off from the rest of Azeroth for a very long time, and it was supposed to have that alien feel. It wasn't supposed to fit in. They could have done more to tie it to the general storyline, I agree, but they really wanted to go with the Hitler-parody and Harrison Jones.
But yes, Uldum is no doubt a "hate it or love it"-area. Some people thought it brilliant (1000gnomes, anyone?) while others found it ridiculous and terrible.
WoW has done a lot for the popularity of MMOs in general. I think, however, that Cataclysm was a gigantic misstep, and the game is suffering because of it. Blizzard can correct the course. It should be quite able to. There are things, in my opinion, that they need to pay attention to if they want to do that (and why wouldn't they want to?).
1. Lore. I know a great many people don't care about lore, but it's something that helps keep the Warcraft universe cohesive. Without a strong lore foundation, a game can meltdown under the number of out of character moments that happen, retcons, or straight up ignoring the theme of the game. Lore in this expansion is a mess. Leading into Wrath and during the expansion, Thrall is seen at odds with Garrosh, even dueling, and the interactions between the two do not speak of mutual respect. One book and expansion later, Thrall ends up passing leadership to Garrosh. It's just one of the moments where players go "Huh?" and they're sprinkled throughout the expac. If they want to correct the course, they need to stick more closely to plotlines that make sense. Four druids of the flame incapacitating three dragon Aspects and two of the most powerful mortals on the face of the planet? This is hack writing, at its best. Return to what Warcraft 3 and vanilla WoW set down, in terms of lore and theme.
2. Content. Cata's lacking, and to keep a game this large going, you need content and you need innovation. Blizzard needs to take a step back and examine what it can do to move MMO gameplay forward. Cata was not it.
3. Most importantly, Variety. We need it everywhere to keep the game going. Updated player models, unique armor models, character customization, PvP BGs, World PvP, dungeons out the wazoo, and new, massive raids that don't rely purely on rehashed mechanics. It's a lot to juggle, especially factoring in the casual and hardcore demographics. But I believe Blizzard can do it, and I believe they have the resources to get it done.
1. I won't argue with you on this point - my knowledge of the lore isn't very extensive, but I agree. Cataclysm definetly had more "What" moments than past expansions, and many of those could have easily been explained and turned out to be good additions to the World (of Warcraft). I've still got my hopes up that more will be explained before the end of Cataclysm, though.
2. Now, I still disagree with you on the lack of content. I don't think the content is lacking, and I can't really see it from your point of view. Innovation is crucial, of course, but there
are
innovative (though, few and far between) mechanics in Cataclysm, and not just in raids.
3. It
is
alot to juggle; especially with people burning(no pun intended) through content and quickly demanding more. Achieving all what you've listed (I agree on most of them, by the way) will take enormous amounts of effort, and giving us another 5-man in the mean-time just won't cut it. I don't know what Blizzard's resources are like, but can they design new, innovative raids of high quality
and
many bosses to provide longevity, while at the same time updating Character models, designing new armor models, improved customization, changes to (and perhaps even new ones) BGs and reviving World PvP, among other things?
Post by
367020
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
KrayOfKhaz
Whether or not you believe WoW is dying depends on whether you view it as being like pizza or 3 course meal. You can choose to cram half the pizza down your gullet, or take the time to savour your appetizer, chew your steak slowly, and linger over coffee and dessert.
Am I surprised that players are bored and burnt out? No, I'm not. Am I bored and burnt out? No, I'm not, but then again I play in ways the loud minority loathe. I did all the quests in each of the new zones before moving on, and I did both Hyjal and Vash before going to Deepholm, and I read quest text for every single one. I alt. I am levelling up one of each of the new race/class combos. I am Everyquesting a couple of toons, reduced xp be damned, and reading all the quest text for all the quests 1-60. Then there's crafting, tinkering with some PvP, achievements to be earned, faction rep to be earned, etc.
I am so far from being over WoW, I feel like it just started.
But hey, if you rocketed your single toon (or two) to 85, jumped right back on the gear hamster wheel, have been stuck in raids since December, and are fed up with the game, you have only one person to blame and you look at them every morning when you comb your hair.
^^ This. This. This.
Sure, it's a personal perspective. When I play an MMO it's not merely for entertainment, it's for my imagination. I'm an explorer/adventurer. When I login I become The Rock meets Indy Jones. I want the total experience...love to quest and craft, explore and slap stuff silly. Raiding is fun and so are shinies but at the end of the day, my writer's mind is inspired by everything in Azeroth. I, for one, will be there to /wave and /salute when the servers go down for the last time.
Post by
Monday
Kray, just going to say now, you have Khaz in your name, which makes it awesome.
Carry on >.>
Post by
Bllets
In all honestly I'm seeing nothing new in this thread compared to what have been said the last 5 years.
People complain as well about the same things. Epics getting to easy to get, not enough content being released, content not coming fast enough, patches being released to fast which means they are bugged to hell and so on.
I personally miss Ulduar, it's the best experience (raid wise) since i started playing back in April 2005. However WoW itself to me seems to be in a good place now. I do however miss 'the gang' i played with in WotLK :(
Post by
bayinghound
We're all on our own path of experiencing this game, some get tired of the same game and think their voice will motivate Blizzard to give them something they feel is missing.
With that said, I haven't played at all during Cata, burnt out during the last few months of Wrath and have been enjoying my break ever since. (:
Don't let the vocal people get to you or make you believe something you otherwise might not think, WoW seems to be doing just fine, looking from the outside in.
Post by
Nathanyal
We're all on our own path of experiencing this game, some get tired of the same game and think their voice will motivate Blizzard to give them something they feel is missing.
I agree with this here. Lots of people play the game, and they come and go. I had friends in highschool that started playing right before TBC came out. I didn't start playing until last year. By time I started getting into WoW they were getting burnt on it.
One thing I notice is that people like to voice their opinion and give "advice" on how to improve WoW. I'm just curious if Blizzard actually took any of the players advice and included some of their ideas into the game. I know that Jagex, the makers of RuneScape, finally listened to the players and returned to an old game style they took out a few years ago.
Post by
Sweetscot
I think they have and do to an extent.
Just a very small sample pulled off the top of my head.
Pallies have ranged abilities now!
Pallies also have at least some heal-on-the-move abilities :D
We got the barbershop <3
The CtA bags were made BoA on the suggestion of the playerbase.
They didn't implement the whole real names on the forums thing (yuck!)
They remade low level dungeons into heroics...for good or ill people did ask for it.
They took away mah tree! (and I still want harm to come to every person who asked for that)
So yea I think they do, the problem is that this playerbase can't agree on anything so you have to hope that the people they listen to are the people that think like you :P
Post by
737602
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
crsh1976
Also, Blizzard continues to favor some classes over others. They keep saying they are trying to balance but it looks like what they mean by balance is making one class OP for a time then switching it up. People are getting sick of the nerfs. They are also getting sick of watching some classes do outrageus dps with poor gear.
It's always been my personal theory that it's intended as a way to make players reroll and keep on playing (and thus paying); even if we only have 10 classes to fiddle with (which, after over 6 years, we've all had time to get around to levelling), there's always a character to level and/or to gear up to keep up with the FotM scheme that's been far too prevalent to be accidental.
Post by
819424
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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