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Lulzsec Recent Rampage
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Post by
Squishalot
First things first, we're not talking about a car or insurance or a bank loan. We're talking about video games. Pure entertainment in a solely digital form.
Doesn't matter what form we're talking about. The principles remain the same.
Second, since when do insurance companies sue anyone when you get in a wreck? YOU can sue someone. The person who hit you's insurance will pay out the amount, their insurance will go up, and you'll just be bitter because your car still go $%^&ed up. There's no suing, unless they don't have insurance, which is illegal too.
As TheMediator pointed out, you have no idea how insurance works. My university degree revolved around the insurance industry. If someone hits you for property damage, you make a claim on your insurance company, and your insurance company makes a claim on them. If you go straight after them, you're not guaranteed a payout (amount is based on the lawsuit), so what sort of idiot would do that?
Banks loaning an individual hundreds of thousands of dollars for a house is on a bit of a different scale too. Even if I pirated every Xbox 360 game made, I'd barely be pushing the amount of the average house and there's a ton of really !@#$ty games that aren't worth the money they cost anyway.
Again, form doesn't matter, it's about the principles of it. Having said that, some houses these days in the US will only sell for 40-50k. At $1 a song, you can't tell me that you don't have around 40,000+ songs on your hard drive, in addition to whatever pirated games you've got.
Stop making terrible, overblown comparisons. I swear, you're making people who pirate anything sound like Nazis or something. It's nothing more than common theft and people need to stop making it out to be more than that. You wouldn't get sued for stealing a Playstation and some games physically from a store. You'd just spend a few days in jail and either pay for the stuff or return it.
Person who pirates = common theft. Imagine jail time for everybody who has pirated a game or dozen. You'd be up in arms if I suggested that too.
Person who assists others in piracy = much more serious than common theft. This is why they penalise drug dealers harder than they penalise drug possession. That's also why going after the guy who uploaded the PS3 source code is much more serious than going after every random person who downloads a song or pirates a game. Do you get that?
My eyes are quite open, although squinted just a bit over how silly this is. I'm grown and I realize that the world has changed and is continuing to change. Companies need to be forced to create better products to earn our money rather than just remaking the same crap without improvement. How many versions of the Nintendo Gameboy / DS are there? How many of them are ACTUAL improvements on the previous model?
Really, if you take your attitude, why would the game companies really bother, if people are going to pirate and 'innovate' anyway?
So, if their company refuses to do something that it is legally required to do, then they'll be sued. Yes. But, that isn't something that happens on every wreck. Generally, they just pay up because that is what they are supposed to do.
You mean, just like people generally pay up for games because that is what they are supposed to do, right?
And, yes, I'm very much so attempting to justify why something that is illegal and considered immoral is not actually that bad and shouldn't be treated with lawsuits. Laws are not always just and correct and can inhibit the rights of people as much as they protect them.
You still haven't made that case, any moreso than someone who steals regularly from the convenience store shouldn't be jailed for a while. The lawsuit only occurs when the person being sued doesn't agree with the penalty that they're given. You can be taken to court over petty theft, if you object to enforcement. Hotz objected to the enforcement (a monetary claim for the damages that Sony suffered as a result of his actions), and thus, was taken to court.
I agree with Chaos, Squish you are overblowing this far more than you had to. Your little analogy about the insurance claim and getting sued by them and whatnot isnt even right, what you said is completely false and doesnt happen that way.
See comments by myself and Mediator. You don't seem to know how an insurance claim really works, other than the fact you get paid when something happens.
I know you have downloaded a song from the internet before. Should you be sued for this? Put in prison? Sony does not need money, they could have simply told him to stop distributing the content and stopped there. Taking money from him was pointless and outrageous. I am not sure why you are making these crazy analogies, but I agree with Chaos on this one.
There are two points in response to this. Firstly, if Sony or anybody made any claims about my downloading games/music illegally, if valid, I would agree to restitute them appropriately. If invalid, I would fight it accordingly.
Secondly, as I mentioned, there is a big difference between drug use and drug dealing. The content that was uploaded was essentially the key to start pirating PS3 software, and is the 'drug dealing' part of this equation.
Post by
224056
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
(1) claiming that what's being done is theft, which has been proven to be untrue (1 download != 1 lost sale, not to mention that the original is still there, not gone)
Not true. 1 download is just as much a loss as stealing an item, because the company is still going to produce enough supply in order to meet their physical (paying) demand. The guy who steals a physical CD is just as unlikely to have bought it as the guy who downloads it.
(2) are demanding thousands of dollars per item when most items range from $.99 (most music) to $20 (new movie releases)
That's an entirely different issue. In most cases, they're not actually succeeding with the claims of 'thousands of dollars per item' unless said person happened to be torrenting out the songs thousands of times over and
supplying
the pirated market, which, again, is a vastly different offense to simply downloading it for personal use.
Post by
Thror
Stop making terrible, overblown comparisons. I swear, you're making people who pirate anything sound like Nazis or something. It's nothing more than common theft and people need to stop making it out to be more than that. You wouldn't get sued for stealing a Playstation and some games physically from a store. You'd just spend a few days in jail and either pay for the stuff or return it.
Heh, so you think the word "pirate" describes people that merely download a game for free and for their personal use. Sorry, but you just picked the mildest form of piracy that we are hardly talking about here. The word "pirate" can also describe the kind of people that distribute software for free. Software that has been created by a crowd of people, who depend on the sells of their product. Stealing the intellectual property of someone else is considered a crime. The worst thing about piracy is that it has a huge negative impact on the gaming industry. Games are being more streamlined, bitesized DLC's have become more popular than large expansion packs, companies prefer to make console games for those are pirated less.
And you compare THAT to a guy that steals a silly playstation from a store. Way to get yourself across as a person with opened eyes I say.
Post by
Skreeran
Games are being more streamlined, bitesized DLC's have become more popular than large expansion packs, companies prefer to make console games for those are pirated less.I don't think that has as much to do with piracy as just the general direction of the gaming industry thanks to all sorts of factors. Games are becoming more streamlined because more casual gamers prefer to be led by the hand. DLC is more prominent than expansions because it's easier to make and you can charge more for it in the long run. Et Cetera. It's not just piracy that's causing it.
You can argue that companies are more likely to invest in a harder to pirate console game, or games that run online multiplayer or have other online features, but I don't think it has very much to do with the increased streamlining and DLC.
Post by
109094
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
238331
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
109094
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Xil3
I know you have downloaded a song from the internet before. Should you be sued for this? Put in prison? Sony does not need money, they could have simply told him to stop distributing the content and stopped there. Taking money from him was pointless and outrageous. I am not sure why you are making these crazy analogies, but I agree with Chaos on this one.
There are two points in response to this. Firstly, if Sony or anybody made any claims about my downloading games/music illegally, if valid, I would agree to restitute them appropriately. If invalid, I would fight it accordingly.
Secondly, as I mentioned, there is a big difference between drug use and drug dealing. The content that was uploaded was essentially the key to start pirating PS3 software, and is the 'drug dealing' part of this equation.
I am sure you have used a torrent program before my friend. Thus you have been simultaneously uploading whilst downloading. Thus "dealing" in your point of view. I am calling a white knight syndrome on this one. Sorry bud.
I will also pose this question. What is the difference between what occurred with the PS3 and everyone jail-breaking their iPhones? People are distributing free hotspot software to others "aka dealing" thus cheating both the carriers and Apple out of money, yet the Library of Congress ruled this just? Yea ok you can Mod your phone and distribute it, but not a console? I want to see your answer to that.
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0
,8599,2006956,00.html
There ya go, I will make it easy for you to learn about what I am saying.
Post by
Monday
I am sure you have used a torrent program before my friend.
Assuming makes an ass of you and me.
Post by
238331
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Monday
I'm not saying that it might not be true, but I am saying that you shouldn't build an argument over an assumption.
Post by
OverZealous
I am sure you have used a torrent program before my friend.
Assuming makes an ass of you and me.
But... but... he's
sure
:o
Either way, I don't see a difference between possessing $10,000 worth of stolen physical goods and $10,000 worth of pirated products. In both cases, the company that produced the item, be it a brand new playstation 3 or 20 downloaded CDs, does not recieve the money for it. piracy is theft, no matter how you wish to look at it.
@Chaos: Correct, you do not tax their servers or "steal" a game they needed money to craft. However, you
do
steal (part of) the money it took to develop the game. Producing the box and the CD isn't what costs the most with a game, it's the development process that does.
Also, the fact that Sony already makes money does not justify stealing their products. Not in any way. They pay to produce and develop games, and you pay nothing in return. You can't justify that with saying "Well, they already make a lot of money". You just can't.
Post by
238331
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Xil3
I'm not saying that it might not be true, but I am saying that you shouldn't build an argument over an assumption.
That is not my argument. I am simply saying I don't believe this user is innocent as he puts on. From now on try and argue against the iPhone jail-breaking vs PS3 Modding.
Found here
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0
,8599,2006956,00.html
Please explain the difference to me.
Thank you.
Post by
OverZealous
@Chaos: Correct, you do not tax their servers or "steal" a game they needed money to craft. However, you
do
steal the money it took to develop the game. Producing the box and the CD isn't what costs the most with a game, it's the development process that does.
Also, the fact that Sony already makes money does not justify stealing their products. Not in any way. They pay to produce and develop games, and you pay nothing in return. You can't justify that with saying "Well, they already make a lot of money". You just can't.
If you pirate a game that you would not have purchased anyway, the company is not losing any money at all. Period.
Now, if you would have purchased the game, but pirate it instead, then they are POTENTIALLY losing money.
Because of the fact that you are not stealing a physical product, you are not actually costing them anything. It's still morally wrong, but it's not actually costing them money. If you had to say anything, it's potentially causing them to not make more money, which is a bit different, because they're still making profits because the majority of people are still buying.
It's only stealing development time and money if you take the game or the idea of the game and re-sell it as your own product, because all that money should go to them.
It really makes no difference whether or not you were
going to
buy the game, if you pirate it anyway. Period.
Actually, take Bioware, for example. It's possible to download DLC directly from their website. Not a physical product. So are you saying that obtaining a pirated copy of this DLC does not cost them any money?
Because surely, if the product wasn't a physical one in the first place, it is comparable, yes?
Post by
120504
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
OverZealous
The first has been
arrested
near London, UK.
Headshot. I seriously hope they get them all, and pretty soon, since I imagine someone will be a bit pissed after this.
Post by
Monday
The first has been
arrested
near London, UK.
Nice.
Naming suspects who have been arrested is illegal in Britain.
I think this is kinda dumb.
Post by
224056
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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