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U.S. atheists sue to run bus ads for a God-free lifestyle
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Post by
149406
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
xaratherus
Honestly dude you just proved my point about the problem. All people, religious, atheist, agnostic, whatever should learn to accept other peoples faith or lack there of and respect it. If that were the case then we would have a lot less problems as a society.
I don't have to respect it. If something is stupid, then it doesn't deserve my respect.
I do, however, have to concede that I don't have all the answers, and offer those who believe differently from myself the social room in which to practice their beliefs as they see fit,
as long as that practice does not intrude on my own social sphere
and my ability to practice my own beliefs (or lack thereof).
The overall problem inherent with your statement ("Can't we all just get along?") is that many - most, I'd say - major religions include a fundamental concept that said religion is are absolutely right, and that it's imperative that those of other religions be brought to understand how wrong their former religions were.
In other words, many religions are structured in a way that what you suggest is not only untenable, but blasphemous.
Post by
Gone
Honestly dude you just proved my point about the problem. All people, religious, atheist, agnostic, whatever should learn to accept other peoples faith or lack there of and respect it. If that were the case then we would have a lot less problems as a society.
I don't have to respect it. If something is stupid, then it doesn't deserve my respect.
I do, however, have to concede that I don't have all the answers, and offer those who believe differently from myself the social room in which to practice their beliefs as they see fit,
as long as that practice does not intrude on my own social sphere
and my ability to practice my own beliefs (or lack thereof).
The overall problem inherent with your statement ("Can't we all just get along?") is that many - most, I'd say - major religions include a fundamental concept that said religion is are absolutely right, and that it's imperative that those of other religions be brought to understand how wrong their former religions were.
In other words, many religions are structured in a way that what you suggest is not only untenable, but blasphemous.
You failed to mention that atheism has the same attitude twords any religion.
Thoughts/Opinsions =/= actions
You can think anything you want about somebody and their faith, tolerance is a matter of your actions twords that person and their choices.
Post by
TheReal
What I am reading in this thread is a lot of double standards. I don't care if a bus ad depicts a happy Jewish family because it doesn't offend me (everyone has a right to believe as they choose), but an atheistic ad just grinds my gears.
Im right there with you, honestly problems like this wouldnt happen if people were just a bit more accepting of each others beliefs (not to sound like an after school special there)
Problems like this wouldn't happen if everyone woke up and realized that religion, as a whole, is based on mythology and fables. Once everyone decides that the one factor that separates many groups, religion, is nothing but a way for the clergy to make money, then we'll see a little bit more harmony in the world.
Did you really just come at my argument of "this world would be a better place if we were more accepting of each other"
with
"religion and religious people should all gtfo"?
Honestly dude you just proved my point about the problem. All people, religious, atheist, agnostic, whatever should learn to accept other peoples faith or lack there of and respect it. If that were the case then we would have a lot less problems as a society.
Honestly dude I kind of get the feeling your on the young side when you respond to an argument about tolerance with "Im right and the rest of the world should just relise that and get with the picture"
Yes, but don't assume it means that people with morals need to gtfo. Religious people aren't the only ones with morals.
The problem with everyone accepting everyone else's faith is that by doing so, some religions would have to concede "holy ground" to another religion, and we all know that it's not going to happen. That's why everyone needs to just drop the religion bull^&*! altogether; it's not getting anyone anywhere. Adopt strict moral codes and do good for humankind, not because you're afraid of where you'll go if you don't but because it's the right thing to do.
I believe there is a common misconception about atheists: that we're all passive. Religious people tend to think of us as immoral people who couldn't give a $%^& less what other people believe. Maybe I'm being that extremist mentioned earlier, but I would like to assert that without religion the world would be a better place. I DO care what religious people believe because it's *!@#ing up our world. I WANT religious people to realize that they believe in fables. I would be HAPPY to convert people to atheism just the same way that religious people would be happy to convert to me.
How exactly is religion messing up the world?
I'd like examples that couldn't be caused by any other source.
Palestine ring a bell?
Post by
107106
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Gone
Honestly dude you just proved my point about the problem. All people, religious, atheist, agnostic, whatever should learn to accept other peoples faith or lack there of and respect it. If that were the case then we would have a lot less problems as a society.
I don't have to respect it. If something is stupid, then it doesn't deserve my respect.
I do, however, have to concede that I don't have all the answers, and offer those who believe differently from myself the social room in which to practice their beliefs as they see fit,
as long as that practice does not intrude on my own social sphere
and my ability to practice my own beliefs (or lack thereof).
The overall problem inherent with your statement ("Can't we all just get along?") is that many - most, I'd say - major religions include a fundamental concept that said religion is are absolutely right, and that it's imperative that those of other religions be brought to understand how wrong their former religions were.
In other words, many religions are structured in a way that what you suggest is not only untenable, but blasphemous.
You failed to mention that atheism has the same attitude twords any religion.
Thoughts/Opinsions =/= actions
You can think anything you want about somebody and their faith, tolerance is a matter of your actions twords that person and their choices.
Except, like you said before, atheists don't meet in groups. There's no official organization. There are no official atheist beliefs, so you can't say atheism has that same attitude. You could say some atheists do, but you can make a generalization, because if you call yourself an atheist the only thing that means is that you believe that there is no God. That's it. If you were an anti-theist, you can say that you were an atheist and did not believe in God and believed that the belief in God and religion are detrimental to humanity. The jump from atheism to anti-theism is a big one, and you can't assume an atheist is an anti-theist.
Also, there is such thing called agnostic atheism and agnostic theism, believing that there is no God or that there is while at the same time not claiming absolute certainty. If you did claim absolute certainty, it would be gnostic beliefs.
Atheists beleive that there is no God, and therefore their beleifs contradict any and all religious beliefs, most religions believe that theirs is the only God, and therefore contradict other religious beleifs, its the same thing. My point is that even though we all have contradicting beliefs we can still accept each others beliefs and respect each other.
Yes, but don't assume it means that people with morals need to gtfo. Religious people aren't the only ones with morals.
The problem with everyone accepting everyone else's faith is that by doing so, some religions would have to concede "holy ground" to another religion, and we all know that it's not going to happen. That's why everyone needs to just drop the religion bull^&*! altogether; it's not getting anyone anywhere. Adopt strict moral codes and do good for humankind, not because you're afraid of where you'll go if you don't but because it's the right thing to do.
Then your a biggot. Im sorry but by saying thata nybody who dosnt share your world view is wrong and is the one causing the problem, you are only making greater gaps between people and pertetuating the intolerance I was talking about.
Post by
TheReal
Be sure to pray for me then.
Post by
xaratherus
You failed to mention that atheism has the same attitude twords any religion.
Religion <> God. Buddhism is a primarily atheistic religion, for example. An atheist is not guaranteed to have any given attitude regarding religion; the only thing that they're guaranteed to have is a lack of belief that any deities exist.
From a purely philosophical perspective, I personally think that Christianity has some good moral guidelines. None of them are original to Christianity, but that's neither here nor there.
To assume that every atheist will have the same attitude towards ever religion in the world is to show that you're invalidly generalizing atheists.
Thoughts/Opinsions =/= actions
You can think anything you want about somebody and their faith, tolerance is a matter of your actions twords that person and their choices.
I really have no clue what point you're trying to make here. I will point out that tolerance <> respect. I can be tolerant of a religion that I find blatheringly ridiculous; that doesn't mean I have to respect it, only that I must give those who follow that religion freedom to practice it up to the point where it begins to intrude on my own being.
Post by
Gone
Ok? lol I kinda dont get the point your trying to make either. All Im saying is people need to be accepting of each other. Thats atheists need to be more accepting of religious people (yes even though they may not "respect" that religion), and religious people need to accept those who do not share the same faith on them.
EDIT: What I was trying to say is you can not respect somebody or their faith if thats what you choose, but saying it to them is a very different thing. What im basicly trying to say is people should keep some opinions to themself, especialy if it offends people, which is what I meant by
Thoughts/Opinions =/= actions
Post by
Pwntiff
What im basicly trying to say is people should keep some opinions to themself, especialy if it offends people, which is what I meant by
Thoughts/Opinions =/= actions
If one is offended by another's opinions, one should grow a thicker skin.
Post by
wildx22
^ That, or the "rude" person should feel at ease with being alienated.
Post by
Pwntiff
^ That, or the "rude" person should feel at ease with being alienated.
Eh, opinions can't be rude though. If I say "I think your beliefs are ridiculous, illogical, and inconsistent," and you get offended, was I being rude?
Post by
wildx22
See how I put "rude" in quotes? Objectively, it may not be rude. But if someone tells me that (I'm not religious, so let's say some other belief), I would be a liar if I said I would not be offended at all. Even if it was a relatively polite opinion, I absolutely would not dare to tell my boss and colleagues that I think Christianity is ridiculous and illogical.
Edit: Anyhow, my response to your comment was because it sounds like you're expecting people to be able to accept any offensive statement, as long as it is dressed up as an opinion. It's like telling a girl "I think you're fat". While not all negative opinions are rude, some opinions
can
be rude.
Post by
Thror
Eh, opinions can't be rude though. If I say "I think your beliefs are ridiculous, illogical, and inconsistent," and you get offended, was I being rude?
Can't? You did not really consider many possibilities, eh. "I think you are fat and your face is ugly," is an opinion as well.
What Ryjacork said
What im basicly trying to say is people should keep some opinions to themself, especialy if it offends people, which is what I meant by
Thoughts/Opinions =/= actions
Could be even more basically worded as "I think people should be polite."
I genuinely agree with the idea that people should learn to be tolerant and polite to each other.
Post by
Gone
^ That, or the "rude" person should feel at ease with being alienated.
Eh, opinions can't be rude though. If I say "I think your beliefs are ridiculous, illogical, and inconsistent," and you get offended, was I being rude?
Yes it is lol. Thats like going up to somone and saying "I find your face to be unatractive, pimply, and gross"
It may be true but its not always polite to say. I mean I have to ask you Pwntiff, why would you want to say that to somebody? Would you really expect that to lead to anything productive?
Post by
Thror
I mean I have to ask you Pwntiff, why would you want to say that to somebody? Would you really expect that to lead to anything productive?
This question assumes that Pwntiff would want to say that to somebody, which is an incorrect assumption. It is possible that he has just been talking about expressing opinions strictly in the religious context.
Post by
Gone
I mean I have to ask you Pwntiff, why would you want to say that to somebody? Would you really expect that to lead to anything productive?
This question assumes that Pwntiff would want to say that to somebody, which is an incorrect assumption. It is possible that he has just been talking about expressing opinions strictly in the religious context.
If I say
"I think your beliefs are ridiculous, illogical, and inconsistent," and you get offended, was I being rude?
We were talking about a hypathetical situation in which he were to say this
Post by
TheReal
The very heart of most religions is
not
tolerance; it's conversion.
Bring more people into my church! Once they're here, make sure they're tithing appropriately! Do it or ye shall burn in Hell!
...and that's what makes religion stupid. People seem to believe that religion spawned morality; if anything, it was the other way around. If I may once again quote another wise man, this time Arthur C. Clarke:
“The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion.”
Post by
Gone
The very heart of most religions is
not
tolerance; it's conversion.
Bring more people into my church! Once they're here, make sure they're tithing appropriately! Do it or ye shall burn in Hell!
...and that's what makes religion stupid. People seem to believe that religion spawned morality; if anything, it was the other way around. If I may once again quote another wise man, this time Arthur C. Clarke:
“The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion.”
No offence dude, but im kinda just gonna ignore the rest of the stuff you say unless you start making reasonable arguments. The only person
here
who has been 'preaching' intolerance is you. Everyone else here has pretty much agreed that people should be tolerant of each other and each others beliefs, where as your stance has been "screw tolerance, religion needs to gtfo. You either agree with me or your wrong".
Post by
TheReal
Address these reasonable statements then, Ryjacork.
The very heart of most religions is
not
tolerance; it's conversion.
Tolerance of all other religions is impossible without either stepping on toes or having yours stepped on.
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