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Omg DK's, thought they fixed them
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Post by
kamodius
Too bad you can't queue up and be able to de-select DK's as tanks.
The challenge of healing them will make you a better healer.
Post by
300838
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
481692
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Lorkin
Wow it's like night and day. I finally got into the level 80 bracket and the level 80 DK's are pro's at tanking. It's like a switch was activated in that all DK tanks below 80 sucked, and all of them afterwards rock. Like night and day it truly is an amazing transformation.
Post by
faia
you see little diffrence on a crappy war/pala tank as they very gorgiving (actuley pre 4.2 how do you find a crappy pala tank? its faceroll)
you will notice a bad druid tank or death knight, druid because they still meh to they get into the gears, and Dk got to time their death shield and not spam it like a idiot to make him self look good
Post by
91650
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Post by
138583
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Post by
Raleandris
The biggest problem with avoidance tanking in ICC was that everyone was already doing it just by being in gear from the place. Tanks had upwards of 75% characters sheet avoidance in 277 gear. That's with no gems and no enchants, and 2 stamina trinkets. We were so far into diminishing returns it was mind boggling.
Post by
donnymurph
Why did we necro this thread?
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
xenoblad
I would probably say that a bad DK tank is the worst type of bad tank to heal, Granted an amazing DK tank will be able to take care of themselves longer than other tanks since they controll their destiny more so than any other tank.
Post by
DraconisAerius
I would probably say that a bad DK tank is the worst type of bad tank to heal, Granted an amazing DK tank will be able to take care of themselves longer than other tanks since they controll their destiny more so than any other tank.
I've seen a DK tank in full 372's solo the whole of Heroic Lost City, and I've seen another very good DK tank in 359's, before the 4.2 nerf, deal with the adds on Magmaw by himself, recieveing no heals from anyone except himself. A really good DK tank with a good team behind him is unbeatable. But even the best DK tank can be brought low by having a bad raid group.
Post by
Trishi
All tanks going to suffer if go for straight stamina. Dks actually slightly less due to Death strike healing mechanics.
Wrong, it only benefits if you take less than 5ish % of your total damage over the last 5 seconds.
Meh, DKs just have a higher learning curve than the other tanks. Your stigma just reinforces peoples false beliefs, even at 85 and heroics. I've seen healers call me "unhealable" after they died, only to have me continue tanking the boss, and actually surviving to kill it. Poor excuses for being bad, if you ask me.
Also remember that a DK loses life far more than other tanks - But that doesn't mean that they are in need of a wall of heals.
People also continueally seem to forget that we aren't supposed to cap off healers. Having a tank with 70-ish % hp isn't a bad thing.
And for lower level dungeons.... You claim DKs aren't fixed because you need to use effort to heal them? If you can shield+renew and be fine, I'd say the other tanks are the ones in need of a fix.... You are a healer, you are there to heal, not to take a nap.
Post by
DraconisAerius
You are a healer, you are there to heal, not to take a nap.
Or to be alt tabbing to facebook every 3 seconds.
Seriously though, when I run on my healer, if people aren't taking damage, I get bored. That's when I pull extra #$%^ to make my life more interesting. But yeah as a tank I'm not worried if my health isn't topped off. Sure it's nice, but it's not necessary unless there is a specific mechanic it needs to be like that for.
All tanks going to suffer if go for straight stamina. Dks actually slightly less due to Death strike healing mechanics.
Really? Because here I was thinking "If you are doing Death Strike right, you should almost never be doing it when it's only going to heal the minimum amount." So that wouldn't be a true statement. Unless you are off-tanking and you want to build up your Blood Shield before something such as Chim's Double Attacks. Got mine high enough this week as off tank that his Double Attack didn't actually do any damage to me.
Now that that is settled, let's stop hyjacking the Priest forums k?
Post by
Trishi
Considering the topic is about the difficulty some priests have in healing DKs... I'd say it fits pretty well here :P
Coming with reasons for
why
they are/seem harder to heal, is very much on-topic and priest-related.
But to sum it up:
Dks can be tough to heal if they don't use
Death Strike
sufficiently, pre or post-mastery, doesn't matter. If they seem to die a lot, dropping a friendly advice (Not that anyone takes any sort of advise as "friendly" nowadays...) to use it a bit more often can help a lot.
Dks WILL lose more hp than the other tanks, but make up for it by healing a large portion of said damage themselves - Which means that you don't need to go overboard with the healing. It takes some getting used to from a healers PoV, but it evens out in the end, if not better, than the other tanks (After mastery, of course)
DKs also have a passive cooldown they automatically use when they drop below 30 % hp.
It helps quite a lot
, but truly shines when the DK in question remembers to use
Rune Tap
. Again, if they don't, tell them to. 10 % might not seem like that big of a difference, but if things are going bad, it can turn the tables quite easily, and allow you to get off another heal if needed.
Also, try to find the time to check if they use diseases, mainly
Scarlet Fever
. It's DKs equivalent of Warriors Thunderclap. And against heavy hitting foes, like bosses,
Bone Shield
makes a huge difference as well.
And watch for
Vampiric Blood
. This thing makes your heals far more effective, and basically works as an added bonus to your Grace (for Disc, and whatever it's called for Holy, the Cooldown thingy).
But in general, if you don't die, giving tips makes you a nice and friendly player, but it isn't really needed. If things go wipe-free, it's been a good run. You should only ever complain about tanks who die, and especially if they basically commited suicide *Cough*Druid tanks shifting out of bear form*cough*. For thorns, maybe if they have AoE trouble, but requires attention from the healer. For self-healing? No. Just no...
Post by
Lorkin
Not sure how this got necroed but oh well.
Well there's something to be said about a run where healing is just right. Too little and I fall asleep. Too frantic and I end up having to sit and drink between pulls. Like goldy locks, you want it just right.
That being said, DK's at 85 have fixed themselves for whatever reason and are easy enough to heal now. The issue I'm finding while running heroics is tanks that either gear for PvP or something else. I had a paladin the other day who took so much damage (and somehow lost aggro) that I ended up having to sit and drink each pull. When I asked him what's up, he made fun of my gear.
My response is that I have healed other tanks and they don't feel that squishy. This goes to show you that any tank class, if not using their abilities or geared correctly, are sometimes hard to heal. It makes it even worst if they seem like a paper tank AND lose aggro to the dps each pull. I then not only have to keep them up, but the rest of the group. Without fully decked out epics, it's a real toll on mana.
Is it possible some tanks are just so use to overgeared healers that they don't even bother with using their damage reduction CD's? Or using their abilities to reduce incoming damage or even simple CC'ing of mobs? Most of the time (90%) if a tank is in FL gear they are easy to heal, but sometimes I run into some tanks and wonder how in the world they got that gear in the first place.
Post by
Trishi
Is it possible some tanks are just so use to overgeared healers that they don't even bother with using their damage reduction CD's? Or using their abilities to reduce incoming damage or even simple CC'ing of mobs? Most of the time (90%) if a tank is in FL gear they are easy to heal, but sometimes I run into some tanks and wonder how in the world they got that gear in the first place.
This might be the number one issue for poor tanks at level 85, and even healers seem to think it's ridiculous sometimes. I have, on numerous occasions, asked a priest to drop a Lightwell in ZA/ZG, because so many bosses have tons of party-wide damage, and the simply response I get 90 % of the time is "lol, relax, we aren't raiding". Likewise, only about 10 % of all disc priests seem to use pain suppression and PW: Barrier. I have no idea why people find CDs to be "overkill" in heroics... they might be easy to begin with, but why purposely gimp yourself? There's really no point in it.
I always find it funny when tanks die like mages, and keep aggro about as well as a dead stone. Seriously, how can you #$%^ up gearing and playing that badly? I could understand a squishy tank if they geared improperly (no tank stats, for example), but that would also mean more vengeance AND more damage oriented stats. But how is it possible to fail at
both
?
Post by
DraconisAerius
That being said, DK's at 85 have fixed themselves for whatever reason and are easy enough to heal now. The issue I'm finding while running heroics is tanks that either gear for PvP or something else. I had a paladin the other day who took so much damage (and somehow lost aggro) that I ended up having to sit and drink each pull. When I asked him what's up, he made fun of my gear.
I always find it funny when tanks die like mages, and keep aggro about as well as a dead stone. Seriously, how can you #$%^ up gearing and playing that badly? I could understand a squishy tank if they geared improperly (no tank stats, for example), but that would also mean more vengeance AND more damage oriented stats. But how is it possible to fail at
both
?
I was in BH last week, and the Pally Healer was pulling threat off me as a DK tank. I had BP on, was spamming rune stirke as much as I could and the bugger was still pulling 3 times the threat of any one else in the raid. So sometimes, it's not the tanks fault. And no he didn't have RF on btw, I looked.
Post by
MrSCH
You must have been doing something wrong then, simple as that.
Either that or he BoP'd you and you didn't notice.
Post by
481692
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