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Blizzard vs Tolkien
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Post by
Monday
Another series I liked is the Shannara universe..but knowing some of the feelings towards it, will leave it at that.
I liked Shannara. The first was pretty much a copout of
Lord of the Rings
, but so are a lot of things. After he got writing and mixed the post apocalyptic technology with magic, things got really interesting.
My favorite definitely has to be the
Voyage of the Jerle Shannara
. Easily the best series he wrote.
Post by
Gone
Another series I liked is the Shannara universe..but knowing some of the feelings towards it, will leave it at that.
I liked Shannara. The first was pretty much a copout of
Lord of the Rings
, but so are a lot of things. After he got writing and mixed the post apocalyptic technology with magic, things got really interesting.
My favorite definitely has to be the
Voyage of the Jerle Shannara
. Easily the best series he wrote.
I was by those books every time im in Barns n Noble but I havnt had a chance to check them out yet (finishing Orcs and World War Z first), it seems like there r a lot, any idea where a good starting place would be?
Post by
Monday
The Sword of Shannara
, followed by the
Elf Stones of Shannara
and then the
Wishsong of Shannara
, iirc.
Post by
Tuppence
It's difficult to think that any fantasy setting is better than Middle Earth. I even mean fantasy in the broader sense of the word: any imagined world, as opposed to elves and dwarves.Go pick up you're copy of lotro and read the prologue; have you ever read such a description of a race as "Concerning Hobbits?"
Whilst hobbits are not gnomes, and neither are dwarves or elves, it's a good example of Tolkien's immensely realistic and distinct races (and indeed his world).
Post by
Adamsm
It's difficult to think that any fantasy setting is better than Middle Earth. I even mean fantasy in the broader sense of the word: any imagined world, as opposed to elves and dwarves.Go pick up you're copy of lotro and read the prologue; have you ever read such a description of a race as "Concerning Hobbits?"
Whilst hobbits are not gnomes, and neither are dwarves or elves, it's a good example of Tolkien's immensely realistic and distinct races (and indeed his world).
Meh, never been a fan of Middle Earth.
Post by
Hennix
Elves and such has been around for over 1000 years for example in the celtic mythology and the Norse and for sure in other cultures =)
Post by
Monday
Elves and such has been around for over 1000 years for example in the celtic mythology and the Norse and for sure in other cultures =)
However, they aren't even close to the modern version of elves that Tolkien used (which were based on the mythical elves).
Post by
xaratherus
Elves and such has been around for over 1000 years for example in the celtic mythology and the Norse and for sure in other cultures =)
However, they aren't even close to the modern version of elves that Tolkien used (which were based on the mythical elves).
Pratchett's Discworld Fair Folk are far closer to the original myths of elves than Tolkien. Elves weren't originally nice beings.
Post by
Adamsm
Elves and such has been around for over 1000 years for example in the celtic mythology and the Norse and for sure in other cultures =)
However, they aren't even close to the modern version of elves that Tolkien used (which were based on the mythical elves).
Pratchett's Discworld Fair Folk are far closer to the original myths of elves than Tolkien. Elves weren't originally nice beings.
Neither are the Dark/Winter/Bane Courts of a dozen other authors heh; but yeah, for all the research Tolkien did, he skimmed over the fact that most of the stories about the Fae and Elves almost always had their opposite number working for the Dark.
Post by
WTBaggrodump
Ironically, it was Tolkien who turned alot of views on the basic dwarves, elves, ect on their heads. Before him, elves were tiny creatures akin to fairies. You blame them for missing food or clothing. Dwarves were like the crap in Sleeping Beauty. Who wants that? The only thing I've seen Blizzard do is have it's own universe where they bring together alot of fabled, mythic, and unique creatures and give all of them their own story and livihood. Tolkien was epic and worked on his books for decades. Blizzard's been at this for... 20 years?
Post by
Adamsm
Before him, elves were tiny creatures akin to fairiesNot all the time; yes there were some fairy tales like that..and just as many legends and stories about the Shining Ones and all the fear and terror they would bring to the poor mortal who had the misfortune to fall into a Ring and go Under Hill.
Post by
Monday
Elves and such has been around for over 1000 years for example in the celtic mythology and the Norse and for sure in other cultures =)
However, they aren't even close to the modern version of elves that Tolkien used (which were based on the mythical elves).
Pratchett's Discworld Fair Folk are far closer to the original myths of elves than Tolkien. Elves weren't originally nice beings.
Neither are the Dark/Winter/Bane Courts of a dozen other authors heh; but yeah, for all the research Tolkien did, he skimmed over the fact that most of the stories about the Fae and Elves almost always had their opposite number working for the Dark.
As in, the orcs?
For the record, Tolkien orcs are dark elves.
Post by
Adamsm
Thought the Orcs were corrupted Elves as opposed to an actual race of 'darker' beings.
Post by
Monday
Same thing. The orcs are corrupted elves, but one would assume that because of their numbers and the fact that Melkor is chained under the earth that they can breed or create more of themselves, which would imply that they were mutated into a completely new species or race, working completely for the dark.
Post by
Sweetscot
Ironically, it was Tolkien who turned alot of views on the basic dwarves, elves, ect on their heads. Before him, elves were tiny creatures akin to fairies. You blame them for missing food or clothing.
Dwarves were like the crap in Sleeping Beauty.
Who wants that? The only thing I've seen Blizzard do is have it's own universe where they bring together alot of fabled, mythic, and unique creatures and give all of them their own story and livihood. Tolkien was epic and worked on his books for decades. Blizzard's been at this for... 20 years?
I'm thinking you do not know fairy tales nor their origins very well....
I'd guess you were likely referring to Snow White, but even then if you look further back than disney you'll see that most fairy/folk tales did not have very "nice" mythical creatures.
Oh, and
Terry Brooks
is pretty awesome, I love Kingdom For Sale and the rest of that series, never really got into the Shannara series. I am sadly not a huge fan of Tolkein as far as reading his actual work, just too overly descriptive and long winded for me BUT his artistic vision and all the lore/races/etc are awesome.
Edit-Edit: /wears badge of shame..... you'll see why below
Thanks Adams, I think a zombie got to my brain the night last night. Don't know how I screwed that up lol
Post by
Adamsm
Same thing. The orcs are corrupted elves, but one would assume that because of their numbers and the fact that Melkor is chained under the earth that they can breed or create more of themselves,
which would imply that they were mutated into a completely new species or race
, working completely for the dark.
Got it in one: A new race, not the Dark/Winter/Bane court you see in nearly all other literature and legends involving the Fae where it is usually two separate groups but each groups have specific things with them, but nearly all of them speak of the Elves being on both sides, so the perversion of a race of the Light doesn't follow the same idea of the actual courts.
Oh, and Pratchett is pretty awesome, I love Kingdom For Sale and the rest of that series, never really got into the Shannara series. I am sadly not a huge fan of Tolkein as far as reading his actual work, just too overly descriptive and long winded for me BUT his artistic vision and all the lore/races/etc are awesome.That's Terry Brooks Sweet.....
Post by
Gone
Tolkien is the father of modern mythology, before him elves and dwarves and the like were treated more like spirits than an actual race of beings in their interaction with humans, all the authors today who write about this type of fantasy are just building on what he started. That's why he's considered by many to be one of the greatest authors of all time, our whole perception of elves and dwarves and orcs and goblins today is thanks to what he created
Post by
Monday
Got it in one: A new race, not the Dark/Winter/Bane court you see in nearly all other literature and legends involving the Fae where it is usually two separate groups but each groups have specific things with them, but nearly all of them speak of the Elves being on both sides, so the perversion of a race of the Light doesn't follow the same idea of the actual courts.
There were also the Dark Elves that never went to see the tree, but IIRC they aren't evil so I didn't mention them.
Post by
Adamsm
Got it in one: A new race, not the Dark/Winter/Bane court you see in nearly all other literature and legends involving the Fae where it is usually two separate groups but each groups have specific things with them, but nearly all of them speak of the Elves being on both sides, so the perversion of a race of the Light doesn't follow the same idea of the actual courts.
There were also the Dark Elves that never went to see the tree, but IIRC they aren't evil so I didn't mention them.
Right, heh, so Tolkien never had real 'evil' elves.
Post by
Gone
Got it in one: A new race, not the Dark/Winter/Bane court you see in nearly all other literature and legends involving the Fae where it is usually two separate groups but each groups have specific things with them, but nearly all of them speak of the Elves being on both sides, so the perversion of a race of the Light doesn't follow the same idea of the actual courts.
There were also the Dark Elves that never went to see the tree, but IIRC they aren't evil so I didn't mention them.
Right, heh, so Tolkien never had real 'evil' elves.
Except that's what the orcs were...
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