This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Live
PTR
10.2.7
PTR
10.2.6
Beta
Veteran shot 60 times by police
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
pnkflffytutu
Tucson is a pretty racist place isn't it?...
Post by
ExDementia
Tucson is a pretty racist place isn't it?...
What does that have to do with anything?
Post by
717621
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
569307
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
717621
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
Wow, so far in the article they said they have found nothing illegal yet. That is just stupid and I think the swat team overreacted to the situation.
It may not be illegal to own an assault rifle in Tuscon, but it sure as heck is illegal to point one at police officers. Just like it's not illegal to own a knife, but once you've stuck it in your mother-in-law you've committed a crime. A teddy bear is not illegal to own, but if a little girl is missing, and you have HER teddy bear, you have some explaining to do. ExDementia said that he read that the weapons and armor in the house were in the warrant, meaning that while the items themselves might not be illegal to own, they WERE related to whatever the police were investigating.
Post by
238331
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ExDementia
This isn't the original place I saw it but
here
:
Attorney Michael Storie said authorities found rifles, handguns, body armor and a portion of a law-enforcement uniform inside the house where Jose Guerena was shot by officers serving a search warrant May 5.
“Everything they think they’re going to find in there they find,” Storie said in a news conference called a day after the Sheriff’s Department complained that media reports on the incident spread misinformation and encouraged speculation about events surrounding the shooting. The Sheriff’s Department said Wednesday that it would provide no details about the case to the public until the investigation is complete.
The search warrant and court documents showing what deputies were looking for and seized from Guerena’s home have been sealed by a judge and are unavailable to the public.
I'm definitely on the fence about all this. I could see it going both ways, honestly. I want to wait for more evidence, but the more I read the more I come up in favor of the cops.
About the safety being on, are you gonna be checking to see if his safety is off when he has the gun pointed at you?
You're missing the point there. The fact that the safety matters is they originally said he shot at them; something that's impossible if the safety is on. Also, it makes me wonder if he was pointing the gun at them at all:
One thing that I was thinking about, is if we now know that the police lied about him firing at them, who's to say they didn't lie about him even pointing the gun at him? This guy has seen combat in active duty through multiple tours over seas... What trained soldier aims gun at someone he thinks is after him with the safety on?
I played paintball for about 5 years, 1.5 years competitively, it became instinctual to put my safety on while sprinting across the field, then to take it off after sliding into cover.
I'm not entirely sure he even pointed the gun at them at all. BUT like said above, we have so little information.
Post by
238331
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ExDementia
Yeah, even that doesn't really say a whole lot. I'm still pretty much of the opinion that there was a needless use of excessive force until they can prove otherwise because the police already lied about a pretty major part of the story.
Pretty much agree.
Post by
207044
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ExDementia
FACTS of swats failure...
You just made a @#$% load of assumptions based on information we do not have.
Assumptions =/= facts
Wait for the results of the
real
investigation before spouting off these "facts", please.
If you want me to completely tear apart the arguments you posted, please just let me know and I'll arrange a time to do so after work :)
Post by
abulurd
Honestly at this point in time I highly doubt anything will happen to the swat team that killed the kid. According to CNN all 5 members of the team that actually shot him remain on active duty with no action taken against them. The blue wall closes in again, just like the priest wall that kept child abusers touching kids for decades.
And yes, I an using that example deliberately. At this point in time, the only video released has been heavily doctored by the police.
Further, the initial statement from the sheriff's went out of its way to say the team was innocent and did things properly. In reality, any time there was a shooting where the cops might be at fault there should be a no comment or something along the lines of "we'll investigate."
The way that statement came out to me said "these guys are guilty, but we're never going to let someone touch one of us."
My opinion is guilty. Whether or not that opinion is fact is something I doubt we'll find out.
Post by
207044
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
681143
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ExDementia
My assumptions are based on two things logic/facts
1, like assuming that they are using high fire rate weapons based on fact that he was shot 60+ times even on semi auto with full team shooting his body would be hitting the ground by the time you pulled the trigger 10times.
2, Based on training I personally received from several different swat teams. When in the military
3, Based on gravity and facts 1 and 2
4, Based on training I received in military not only were we combat lifesaver certified and we could not pronounce enemy prisoners dead. Unless they were medical professionals. So that is based on the assumption that citizens on of this great nation have the same rights and courtesy as enemy soldiers.
5, is also based on first hand knowledge and training if he was really pointing a gun at them by the time his gun went up safety would be off. Its reflex training just like typing talking ect you dont have to even think it just happens.
I agree with what you're saying about the trigger and reflex training, but we don't know enough of the facts to make assumptions on some of the other things in your other post. So far all we have of the story is from the guy's wife, and the police's defense attorney
Post by
Firallon
What we do have though, is reasonable doubt. And thats all that matters. Because the police cannot furnish indisputable evidence that proves deadly force was necessary, an innocent man was brutally murdered trying to defend his home from invaders. Innocent until proven guilty, no excessive use of force etc.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
What we do have though, is reasonable doubt. And thats all that matters. Because the police cannot furnish indisputable evidence that proves deadly force was necessary, an innocent man was brutally murdered trying to defend his home from invaders. Innocent until proven guilty, no excessive use of force etc.
Innocent until proven guilty works both ways. The police are currently under investigation for whether or not the shooting is justified. You can't say that the cops have no right to make a call about whether or not a man is dangerous enough to use force on until a full trial takes place, and then think it's ok to condemn those cops in the arena of public opinion, before THEIR trial takes place. We don't know what kind of evidence they had against the man, what procedures they followed, etc. What we do know is that WE have very little evidence about the cops. It's a double standard.
Post by
Skreeran
Helmetcam turned up.
Post by
gnomerdon
who fired the first shot?
was he armed?
did they notify him to surrender?
How long did they wait?
did they have a warrant?
I say the incident ended the way it should have had because I don't know if he was armed or not!
Where are the facts? I'm only hearing bits and pieces of it..
Also, if he had NOTHING to hide, he would have came out and complied and take the possession of drugs charges.....
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.