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10.2.7
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Heavy Healing Shockadin
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Post by
Squishalot
My generic point was they were specs in the Holy tree, thus they are both Holy specs. Just because the talents are different doesn't change this known fact that they are, in fact, Holy.
People may be looking at "Holy" as "healers", but I look at "Holy" by reading the word of the spec, and playing under that word. This particular arguement is pointless.
Wrong, in the same way that
this is not a "Prot Paladin"
, by any rational definition of the term.
Post by
616871
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
A Shockadin, from its roots, is a hybrid build. Right from the outset, it was a part-Holy build that picked up just enough Holy talents to get Holy Shock, then switched to Retribution as soon as possible to get more offensive talents. The fact that they have to go deeper into Holy than they used to in previous builds (due to the changes in the way talent trees work) doesn't change the fact that they are inherently a hybrid build.
Again,
this is not a "Prot Paladin"
, and a Shockadin is not a "Holy Paladin". It is an offensive Holy build. There are key healing talents that are excluded from a Shockadin's build. It doesn't take the final talent ability in the Holy tree. This excludes the talent spec from being referred to as a 'Holy Paladin', as any WoW player would understand it to mean.
Post by
616871
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
481692
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Azazel
Whatever you call the Shockadin spec, Holy, Mutilate or Frost, it doesn't change the fact that it's useless.
Post by
slasher0161
Shockadin is a dead hybrid spec, why is that so hard to understand?
Whatever you call the Shockadin spec, Holy, Mutilate or Frost, it doesn't change the fact that it's useless.
Quoted for emphasis, serious OP are you that brain dead that you post an out of date video as evidence of this amazing "shockadin" powers, you then start insulting the knowledgeable contributors of these boards and even still after all this you don't even understand the grass roots of what the #$%^ your on about is.
You remind me so much of a guildy of mine it is scary, you argue but get so caught up in your own argument you don't even read what the hell anyone else is saying rather just gloss it over and then go on about how your point is so much more relevant.
Post by
Onijitsu
Wrong, in the same way that
this is not a "Prot Paladin"
, by any rational definition of the term.
No, that is, in fact, a "Prot Paladin", by the VERY rational definition that it specs to the top of the Prot tree.
Shockadins are a sub of the Holy spec, but they are Holydins. Some individuals are trying to draw an artificial distinction between a "Prot" or "Holy" paladin and a "REAL Prot" and "REAL Holy" paladin. I'm even willing to agree that certain talents are a "must" for certain purposes. But when individuals are trying to force their own views upon others like this, it really makes me angry.
The point is, Shockadins
are
Holydins, specced to be able to put out more damage than your typical PvE Paladin, which will often pass up those talents. The real question is
how viable they are for both PvE and PvP
-- I would like them to be, for both, but haven't really tried a Shockadin out -- and not this useless, trollish wrangling over definitions which exist solely in the imagination of some individuals. Either say something useful, or keep it shut. I don't know whether the OP is right or not, but getting this personal about it belies your failure to make a rational argument in response to his, as well as other character flaws.
Post by
322291
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Azazel
Could we stop discussing names for specs and talk about why Shockadin is not viable?
Post by
Squishalot
Wrong, in the same way that
this is not a "Prot Paladin"
, by any rational definition of the term.
No, that is, in fact, a "Prot Paladin", by the VERY rational definition that it specs to the top of the Prot tree.
It doesn't. It ignores all the key Prot talents such as Shield of the Righteous, Holy Shield and Ardent Defender. Ardent Defender is the top of the Prot tree and this build doesn't spec to it - it merely has 31 points in Prot.
Shockadins are a sub of the Holy spec, but they are Holydins. Some individuals are trying to draw an artificial distinction between a "Prot" or "Holy" paladin and a "REAL Prot" and "REAL Holy" paladin. I'm even willing to agree that certain talents are a "must" for certain purposes. But when individuals are trying to force their own views upon others like this, it really makes me angry.
I'm not forcing my view upon others. I'm stating that the general definition of a Holy Paladin is a healing one. Go into the game and take a survey of what people think a "Holy Paladin" is, and most of them will say "Healer", or talk about key abilities like spec'ing to Light of Dawn, not "someone who picks Holy".
Either say something useful, or keep it shut. I don't know whether the OP is right or not, but getting this personal about it belies your failure to make a rational argument in response to his, as well as other character flaws.
Personal attack, much? You're the first to get personal about it - does that bely your failure to make a rational argument against me, and bely other character flaws in yourself?
1) I'm not discussing things with the OP, I'm engaging with Kyonu.
2) Kyonu is misled about a Shockadin's strength by an old video when they were phenomenally OP compared to other specs.
3) Kyonu seems not to be able to identify the difference between a Holy Paladin (as PvP healer) and a Shockadin (as PvP offensive spellcaster), either in role or in spec.
4) Therefore, I dispute his claims that he's getting thrashed by Shockadins in PvP, or in fact, that anybody is getting thrashed by Shockadins in PvP.
5) I am saying something useful. I'm educating Kyonu about the community knowledge difference between a Shockadin and a Holy Paladin, just as svirve 'tried' to. Just because you disagree doesn't make me any less right.
6) Clarify where I've gotten "this personal about it", otherwise, 'keep it shut'.
Post by
616871
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
1. Can any healer lose a duel? No. Healers are deliberately designed to be imba in a 1v1 scenario. A DPS spec is not supposed to be able to beat a healer spec in 1v1. As a result, your 'evidence' is misguided.
2. Please link your 'Shockadin' spec for us to show us it's not just another Holy PvP spec.
Post by
322291
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
616871
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Azazel
1v1 is not balance.
And you didn't take Divine Favor, lol.
(20% haste 20% crit for 20 seconds.)
Post by
322291
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Fulgorater
I'm new to the scene of this "shockadin"
what about this profile:
http://www.wowhead.com/profile=24992280
going pure crit on that ?
I was just outside a BWD waiting on a summon buddy and suddenly a holy pali swooped in. I thought nothing of it until it unloaded a world of hurt on me :( perhaps I was just being bad on my ele shaman...
Post by
Azazel
Elemental is horrible in PvP right now. And I assume you were wearing PvE gear while he had PvP. That's a huge difference.
Post by
Squishalot
I built him to be a solo-type class, to be able to gain the attention of the targets, keep myself up long enough to make the rest of my team do something amazing as a team.
In that respect, you're inferior to a healing-specced Holy Paladin, especially by not getting 3/3 Clarity of Purpose.
As far as being able to switch to doing damage, you're inferior to a proper DPS-specced Shockadin, since you don't have talents such as Conviction or Arbiter of the Light.
You're also a bit inconsistent as you then say:
This part I know, he isn't very good in arena's because he's built on being a 1v1 killer
So is he built to do 1v1, or built to be a healer in a team?
Going back to the core of point 1, which you conveniently ignored: a healer is designed by Blizzard to defeat other classes in a 1v1 fight. A DPS class is not designed to be able to kill a healer in 1v1 unless other circumstances are at play favouring the DPS (e.g. healer low on mana, CDs used up, poor RNG, etc.). What you're saying you're doing with your Paladin in 1v1s or team environments is not anything greater than what any cookie cutter Holy PvP build can do.
As for taking on two rogues at the same time, if they're not smart enough to interrupt your heals with Garotte, Blind, Gouge and Kick (i.e. no less than 8 interrupts and silences, plus their stuns), then the experience on your server / battlegroup isn't meaningful, because it's not realistic compared to what most people would encounter. Recuperate heals at approximately 1k HPS, and any decent Subtlety rogue will keep it up as much as possible, especially when going 1v1 (or 2v1!) against a healer, for the bonus energy they get. If you're healing yourself against a pair of rogues, I can't mathematically see you doing enough damage to kill either of them before you either OOM or they take you down.
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