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Osama Bin Laden is dead
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Post by
Cambo
A likely timeline:
During the raid, a woman in the compound screamed the name of the target. It was clear he was indeed in the house.
Upon sighting him in person, it most probably would have been evident that it was him. He looks quite distinctive. They may have tugged at his face to ensure he wasn't wearing a latex mask.
They then used facial recognition techniques to match the corpse with pictures of Osama.
Next would have been a DNA sample, which they matched with his sister who died previously.
Why is the DNA test being questioned? If there was a unanimous agreement between the competant parties involved in the raid that whom they had seized was bin Laden, they wouldn't have had to rely on the DNA result. It would have merely been a formality at that point.
Post by
Yutrippin
A likely timeline:
During the raid, a woman in the compound screamed the name of the target. It was clear he was indeed in the house.
Upon sighting him in person, it most probably would have been evident that it was him. He looks quite distinctive. They may have tugged at his face to ensure he wasn't wearing a latex mask.
They then used facial recognition techniques to match the corpse with pictures of Osama.
Next would have been a DNA sample, which they matched with his sister who died previously.
Why is the DNA test being questioned? If there was a unanimous agreement between the competant parties involved in the raid that whom they had seized was bin Laden, they wouldn't have had to rely on the DNA result. It would have merely been a formality at that point.
That, and/or the initial indicators (whatever they may be) that pointed to the level of certainty that Usama was indeed at that location. For something this big, they don't go on "just a hunch" and hope for somebody.
Post by
Squishalot
You're missing the point of the concern. The issue with the DNA timeline isn't to question whether or not it was actually OBL who was killed, it's the question of whether OBL died in that raid, or whether he really died years and years ago.
Post by
donnymurph
Some people watch lots of hollywood movies about conspiracies and the US government and then believe them.
And some people watch lots of censored media about the US' best interests and believe them.
Post by
Adamsm
You're missing the point of the concern. The issue with the DNA timeline isn't to question whether or not it was actually OBL who was killed, it's the question of whether OBL died in that raid, or whether he really died years and years ago.
Aye, not like it's that hard to shoot a corpse and claim the bullet was what killed him lol.
Post by
Squishalot
Another point of view.
Edit: TL;DR: How do you explain to your kids why people are celebrating someone's death?
Post by
Cambo
You're missing the point of the concern. The issue with the DNA timeline isn't to question whether or not it was actually OBL who was killed, it's the question of whether OBL died in that raid, or whether he really died years and years ago.
Well, what's the point of that? Arguing just for the sake of it it seems.
The same can be said for Kurt Cobain, Elvis Presley, Tupac Shakur etc etc. Are they really dead? Is it a conspiracy? Are their deaths shrouded in mystery?
What is it with Americans and questioning when or if somebody died? I don't understand!
It seems to me that you are being lead down the garden path by political opposition parties and their affiliated media networks.
Post by
Adamsm
Squish isn't an American though lol.
Post by
Squishalot
You're missing the point of the concern. The issue with the DNA timeline isn't to question whether or not it was actually OBL who was killed, it's the question of whether OBL died in that raid, or whether he really died years and years ago.
Well, what's the point of that? Arguing just for the sake of it it seems.
The same can be said for Kurt Cobain, Elvis Presley, Tupac Shakur etc etc. Are they really dead? Is it a conspiracy? Are their deaths shrouded in mystery?
What is it with Americans and questioning when or if somebody died? I don't understand!
It seems to me that you are being lead down the garden path by political opposition parties and their affiliated media networks.
Cambo, I made my general thoughts clear on the second page of this thread:
It's all fairly 'meh' to me, at the moment.
I really don't care whether it actually is OBL or not who died. The idea that OBL actually died years ago is contentious if only because of the resources being spent attempting to track him down, and the fact that it's being announced at this point in time in particular.
Turn it around another way - I'm indifferent as to whether or not the report is true, but I would be foolish to assume / believe that it is entirely true, purely on face value. I have no more or less evidence to suggest that the report is true than I have to suggest that the Bible is true.
Post by
Cambo
Are you getting defensive? I was just responding to something you wrote.
You being indifferent, yet still posing viewpoints makes me confused :P
Both this particular event and the Bible are similar; there are accounts of things taking place by people at places that existed at the time.
By all means, people can question things and be skeptical, but just because they weren't there and didn't see it for themselves doesn't mean it didn't take place, and in an ethical, non-dodgy manner.
Post by
Squishalot
Not defensive at all, just saying it as I see it. Me 'posing a viewpoint' was just me speaking on behalf of the viewpoint, in the same way that I might argue for faith healing in another thread, despite thinking it's absolute crap.
I agree that the events may have taken place. But just because it may have taken place in an ethical and non-dodgy manner doesn't mean that it did take place in an ethical and non-dodgy manner. Nobody is really saying "this is how it is", it's just theorising 'what if's'. The skeptics have just as much reason to be skeptical as the cheer squads have to cheer for.
Post by
606231
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Mesoforte
Neither does what the government tells you, though.
Which part specifically doesn't make sense? A person died due to a bullet? That makes sense. Get shot enough times and you die. The US raiding a compound? Not the first time, that makes sense.
Nice opinion, I have one too. "Re-elect Obama, the man who crippled terrorism" sounds like a good election slogan to me.
Which can backfire if its not crippled but instead has a resurgence.
Well if Al'Qaeda does actually exist, the U.S. would certainly have to remain there to vanquish them completely. Just because their figurehead dies, doesn't mean the operation stops operating. This would likely be the official justification when someone does ask the question of why they are staying.
You mean the organization that's responsible for terrorist attacks across the world on multiple nations? The paranoia you display is hilarious.
Post by
OverZealous
As Osama Bin Ladin's son Omar said in an interview with ABC: "the next leader of al-Qaeda will be worse. There are many even more zealous and violent extremists in al-Qaeda than my father".
I, for one, still think that things with escalate now that U.S forces have (as far as we know) killed their leader. al-Qaeda will be angry and they will no doubt want retribution.
Post by
Cambo
I agree that the events may have taken place. But just because it may have taken place in an ethical and non-dodgy manner doesn't mean that it did take place in an ethical and non-dodgy manner. Nobody is really saying "this is how it is", it's just theorising 'what if's'. The skeptics have just as much reason to be skeptical as the cheer squads have to cheer for.
I agree with you.
(With my limited knowledge of US politics) I believe that the majority of the criticism stems from Republicans (and other opposition) wanting to defame Obama. Anyone who watches any kind of national politics should be aware of this. It is part of the mud-flinging which is politics. The petty tactics in which to tarnish and call into question anything that the opposition does. I see it here in New Zealand to a lesser extent.
I highly doubt that Obama & his people announced the killing of O.B.L just to get praise and adoration from the American people. First and foremost would have been to honour the American public, then to bring closure to the families affected by 9/11. They can't have sat down to have Democratic committee meetings to make up a way to get ahead in the popularity polls.
Presidential policies will always negatively affect people. Civilians will always be killed in war. People will always be marginalized in some way due to economic decisions.
However if you think the US army are running around shooting anything that moves, or that the current POTUS and Senate purposefully want to make life miserable for everyone, you must have rocks in your head.
By all means, if you find a flaw or mistake, question it. But at least have some tangible or competant proof and not just make up sensational accusations.
Post by
Squishalot
By all means, if you find a flaw or mistake, question it. But at least have some tangible or competant proof and not just make up sensational accusations.
As much as I agree with you, isn't that exactly what people were doing by raising the question about the time period between DNA testing and announcing OBL's demise?
Post by
Dragoonman
Okay. What the hell is wrong with this picture?
They decide not to take photos of his body after they killed him and dumped his body into the ocean. Why does this not make any sense?
Remember the birthers? People asking Obama why he didn't just release his long form birth certificate? Remember the huge uproar people caused because they just couldn't understand why he didn't ask someone to use a photocopy machine to scan his birth certificate and then just release since people were asking? It took him two years to release the long form of his birth certificate. Why? I have no freaking idea and I think it was really REALLY stupid to wait and let people tarnish his name before he finally took the five minutes he needed to make a call and get a copy of his birth certificate.
And now... they do this? They don't want to release pictures because they are too "violent" and won't tell us where he was buried at sea because they don't want people to worship the spot? Honestly? ARE THE TRYING TO BREED CONSPIRACY THEORIES? They just tell us to take their word for it so people can once again ask, "What the hell is going on here?" And so once again the internet is going to be flooded with claims of conspiracies because the government won't release proof... AGAIN.
Are they doing it on purpose? Don't tell me that it is too violent when we have children growing up on games like Mortal Kombat and GTA4, not to mention CSI and other gruesome shows. Just release the evidence of his death and people will be happy. Birthers wanted the birth certificate to be shown, and since Obama wouldn't do it people had a reason to think he had something to hide, and I don't blame them.
As for me, I don't really know if he is dead or not (Sarcasm). Why? Because they once again decided that it would be best not to release proof that he is dead. Giving everyone a perfectly good reason to doubt the government and their trustworthiness. They have got to know this will breed conspiracy theories and doubt, and for no good reason they decided to once again not release evidence for some stupid or made up reason.
Here we go... again...
Edit: Oh yeah and here is
something else
Post by
Squishalot
They did take photos, they're just choosing not to release them at the moment.
Post by
Dragoonman
They did take photos, they're just choosing not to release them at the moment.
Yes sorry, that is what I meant to put but was in a frothy rage.
Anyway... they should release them. Now.
Post by
donnymurph
Neither does what the government tells you, though.
Which part specifically doesn't make sense? A person died due to a bullet? That makes sense. Get shot enough times and you die. The US raiding a compound? Not the first time, that makes sense.
I'm not questioning the
possibility
that those things could happen. Of course the U.S. can raid a building and shoot up some guy and he will die. But
did that actually happen
? Of course, you're going to tell me I'm paranoid, I'm an idiot, whatever. But you don't know the facts of the matter any better than I do.
Does it not seem a little
too
convenient that he was living in a compound in an affluent suburb near a major city, a stone's throw from a military compound, bearing a most unusual description.
They realised immediately this was no normal residence. The walls of the 3,000 sq ft compound were 12-18ft high, topped with barbed wire. There were two security gates, and access to the compound was severely restricted. The main part of the residence was three storeys high but had few windows, and a third-floor terrace was shielded by a privacy wall. Built around five years ago, it was valued at about $1m but had no phone or internet connection.Wouldn't this have stood out like a dog's balls?
Nice opinion, I have one too. "Re-elect Obama, the man who crippled terrorism" sounds like a good election slogan to me.
Which can backfire if its not crippled but instead has a resurgence.Big if. Very, very big if. Again, many doubt whether Al'Qaeda ever actually existed; a point which I'm not going to argue, because I don't know. Neither do you.
Well if Al'Qaeda does actually exist, the U.S. would certainly have to remain there to vanquish them completely. Just because their figurehead dies, doesn't mean the operation stops operating. This would likely be the official justification when someone does ask the question of why they are staying.
You mean the organization that's responsible for terrorist attacks across the world on multiple nations? The paranoia you display is hilarious.
Paranoia? When did I say I was paranoid? I have an opinion, sure. A skeptical one. At the end of the day, none of it really affect my day-to-day life, but I choose to discuss it anyway. If that's paranoia, I'm an emu.
I strongly suggest everyone in this thread who has an opinion on anything that's been said here have a look at
these
documentaries. Particularly those who are currently disagreeing with my opinion. Whether you agree with them or not is, of course, entirely up to you. But you should always try to see things from a different point of view.
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