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Assessing all the options [4.1]
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Post by
asakawa
The information in this thread is intended to be a useful reference for people to be able to properly assess the various choices we have as Warlocks in the PvE game
Patch 4.2 update
With relatively minor changes in patch 4.2 I'm going to save an overhaul of this thread for 4.3 at which point I will also use profiles with a higher item level. Rising gear levels through 4.2 will increase the numbers involved but the relative differences between the various options should remain largely the same
Table of Contents
Introduction
Demonology
Glyphs
Pets
Talents
Enchants
Races
Professions
Other Options
Destruction
Glyphs
Pets
Talents
Enchants
Races
Professions
Other Options
Affliction - Shadow Bolt Filler
Glyphs
Pets
Talents
Enchants
Races
Professions
Other Options
Affliction - Drain Life Filler
Glyphs
Pets
Talents
Enchants
Races
Professions
Other Options
Ilvl 346 Stat Weights
BiS Stat Weights
Notes
Introduction
The tendency with this game is to boil everything down to right and wrong. You're either doing things the absolutely optimal way or you're doing it all wrong.
This approach is fine when the difference between option A and option B is a 20% drop in DPS but the game is more complicated now with many more options than ever before. The difference is never that great but our theorycrafting tools are more finely honed and more than equal to the task of quantifying the subtle differences.
My goal with this thread is to look at all the options and try to put a figure to them so we can all see for ourselves exactly how much we stand to lose by making a "sub optimal" decision and decide for ourselves how important it really is.
I'm going to base all these figures on the ilvl 346 set I recently used to make stat weights since it represents at decently balanced, hit-capped gear set. The important thing is that each simulation only changes a single property. The gear will be the same throughout.
If this thread becomes a useful resource then it may be appropriate to go over the tests with different gear sets as we move through the expansion's tiers.
All Simulations are Patchwerk fights, 450seconds long with a 20% variance. I've used 1000 iterations for most tests with 10,000 for very fine differences.
Demonology
Glyphs
DPS
Difference
Percentage
No Glyphs 19443
Prime Glyphs
Charred Glyph
19742 + 299 +1.538%
Charred Glyph
19592 + 149 +0.766%
Charred Glyph
19533 + 90 +0.463%
Charred Glyph
19508 + 65 +0.334%
Major Glyphs
Charred Glyph
19472 + 29 +0.149%
Charred Glyph
19469 + 26 +0.134%
Pet-specific Prime Glyphs
Succubus with no glyphs 18125
Charred Glyph
19139 +1014 +5.594%
Imp with no glyphs 17871
Charred Glyph
18618 + 747 +4.180%
Felguard with no glyphs 17963
Glyph of Felguard
18052 + 89 +0.495%
Pets
DPS
Difference
Percentage
Summon Felhunter
20012
Summon Succubus
19608 - 404 -2.019%
Summon Imp
19140 - 872 -4.357%
Summon Felguard
18523 -1489 -7.441%
Summon Doomguard
20012
Summon Infernal
19597
Talents
DPS
Difference
Percentage
Per Talent Point
Demonology only
18294
Without Emberstorm
19545
20012 + 467 +2.389% 1.194%
18872 + 578 +3.160% 1.053%
18602 + 308 +1.684% 0.842%
18695 + 401 +2.192% 0.731%
18472 + 178 +0.973% 0.324%
Enchants
DPS
Difference
Percentage
Weapon Enchants
No Enchant 19526
Power Torrent
19870 +344 +1.762%
Mighty Spellpower
19654 +128 +0.655%
Hurricane
19613 +87 +0.445%
Races
DPS
Difference
Percentage
Orc
20835 523 2.575%
Troll
20728 416 2.048%
Worgen
20479 167 0.822%
Goblin
20465 153 0.753%
Undead
20312-
Blood Elf
20326-
Gnome
20342-
Human
20316-
Dwarf
20317-
Professions
DPS
Difference
Percentage
No Professions 20306
Tailoring
20702 396
1.950%
Engineering
20652 346
1.704%
Blacksmithing
20526 220 1.083%
Leatherworking
* 20632 326 1.605%
Alchemy
20550 244 1.202%
Enchanting
20522 216 1.064%
Jewelcrafting
20539 233 1.148%
Inscription
20532 226 1.113%
Herbalism
20437 131 0.645%
Skinning
20373 67 0.330%
Mining
20307-
* The differences between the professions that all provide 80 Intellect seen here is just simulation noise. Leatherworking's value is inflated because the 130 Int enchant replaces 50 haste in these tests rather than the more expensive 50 Int *
Other Options
DPS
Difference
Percentage
Incinerate
as filler with
modified build
19680 -332 -1.659%
(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##asakawa##DELIM##
Post by
asakawa
Destruction
Glyphs
DPS
Difference
Percentage
No Glyphs 18783
Prime Glyphs
Charred Glyph
19338 +555 +2.955%
Charred Glyph
19117 +334 +1.778%
Charred Glyph
18999 +216 +1.150%
Charred Glyph
18951 +168 +0.894%
Charred Glyph
18804 + 21 +0.112%
Shadowburn test
*
- no glyphs 18690
Faded Glyph
18746 +56 0.300%
Major Glyphs
Charred Glyph
18807 + 24 +0.127%
*
Done using SimCraft version 4.1.0 release 10
Pets
DPS
Difference
Percentage
Summon Imp
19963
Summon Felhunter
19791 -172 -0.861%
Summon Succubus
19201 -762 -3.817%
Summon Doomguard
19963
Summon Infernal
19989
Talents
DPS
Difference
Percentage
Per Talent Point
Destruction only
18570
19558 +988 +5.320% 1.773%
Without Mana Feed
19558
19843 +285 +1.457% 0.364%
18647 + 77 +0.415% 0.208%
18679 +109 +0.587% 0.196%
Enchants
DPS
Difference
Percentage
Weapon Enchants
No Enchant 19849
Power Torrent
20207 +358 +1.803%
Mighty Spellpower
19994 +145 +0.731%
Hurricane
19962 +113 +0.569%
Races
DPS
Difference
Percentage
Orc
20533 367 1.820%
Troll
20444 278 1.379%
Worgen
20309 143 0.709%
Goblin
20298 132 0.655%
Undead
20166 -
Blood Elf
20190-
Gnome
20205-
Human
20175-
Dwarf
20172-
Professions
DPS
Difference
Percentage
No Professions 20151
Tailoring
20563 412
2.045%
Engineering
20451 300
1.489%
Leatherworking
* 20476 325 1.613%
Blacksmithing
20383 232 1.151%
Alchemy
20392 241 1.196%
Jewelcrafting
20379 228 1.131%
Inscription
20379 228 1.131%
Enchanting
20391 240 1.191%
Herbalism
20284 133 0.660%
Skinning
20221 70 0.347%
Mining
20150 -
* The differences between the professions that all provide 80 Intellect seen here is just simulation noise. Leatherworking's value is inflated because the 130 Int enchant replaces 50 haste in these tests rather than the more expensive 50 Int *
Other Options
DPS
Difference
Percentage
Affliction - Shadow Bolt Filler
Glyph Options
DPS
Difference
Percentage
No Glyphs 20640
Prime Glyphs
Charred Glyph
20891 +251 +1.216%
Charred Glyph
20724 + 84 +0.407%
Charred Glyph
20664 + 24 +0.116%
Major Glyphs
Charred Glyph
20675 +35 +0.169%
Charred Glyph
20658 +18 +0.087%
Pet Options
DPS
Difference
Percentage
Summon Felhunter
21040
Summon Succubus
20147 -893 -4.244%
Summon Imp
19730 -1310 -6.226%
Summon Doomguard
21040
Summon Infernal
21033
Talent Options
DPS
Difference
Percentage
Per Talent Point
Affliction only
19791
20238 +447 +2.259% 0.753%
20228 +437 +2.208% 0.736%
20097 +306 +1.546% 0.513%
No Mana Feed
20228
20369 +141 +0.697% 0.174%
Enchant Options
DPS
Difference
Percentage
Weapon Enchants
No Enchant 20924
Power Torrent
21304 +380 +1.816%
Mighty Spellpower
21080 +156 +0.746%
Hurricane
21044 +120 +0.574%
Races
DPS
Difference
Percentage
Orc
21705 484 2.280%
Troll
21555 334 1.574%
Goblin
21384 163 0.768%
Worgen
21375 154 0.726%
Undead
21221 -
Blood Elf
21224 -
Gnome
21222 -
Human
21237 -
Dwarf
21223 -
Professions
DPS
Difference
Percentage
No Professions 21219
Tailoring
21602 383
1.805%
Engineering
21565 346
1.631%
Leatherworking
*21531 312 1.470%
Blacksmithing
21446 227 1.070%
Alchemy
21445 226 1.065%
Jewelcrafting
21439 220 1.037%
Inscription
21447 228 1.075%
Enchanting
21450 231 1.089%
Herbalism
21347 128 0.603%
Skinning
21269 50 0.236%
Mining
21221 -
* The differences between the professions that all provide 80 Intellect seen here is just simulation noise. Leatherworking's value is inflated because the 130 Int enchant replaces 50 haste in these tests rather than the more expensive 50 Int *
Other Options
DPS
Difference
Percentage
Agony
with
Charred Glyph
20565 -475 -2.258%
(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##asakawa##DELIM##
Post by
asakawa
Affliction - Drain Life Filler
Glyph Options
DPS
Difference
Percentage
No Glyphs 20817
Prime Glyphs
Charred Glyph
21134 +317 +1.523%
Charred Glyph
20866 +49 +0.235%
Charred Glyph
20820 +3 +0.014%
Major Glyphs
Charred Glyph
20835 +18 +0.086%
Pet Options
DPS
Difference
Percentage
Summon Felhunter
21229
Summon Succubus
20135 -1094 -5.153%
Summon Imp
19600 -1629 -7.673%
Summon Doomguard
21229
Summon Infernal
21235
Talent Options
DPS
Difference
Percentage
Per Talent Point
Affliction only
20451
20933 +482 +2.357% 0.786%
Without Manafeed
20933
21149 +216 +1.031% 0.258%
20522 +71 +0.347% 0.116%
Enchant Options
DPS
Difference
Percentage
Weapon Enchants
No Enchant 21115
Power Torrent
21504 +389 +1.842%
Mighty Spellpower
21268 +153 +0.725%
Hurricane
21223 +108 +0.511%
Races
DPS
Difference
Percentage
Orc
22132 507 2.344%
Troll
21946 321 1.484%
Goblin
21782 157 0.726%
Worgen
21759 134 0.620%
Undead
21625 -
Blood Elf
21626 -
Gnome
21637 -
Human
21620 -
Dwarf
21618 -
Professions
DPS
Difference
Percentage
No Professions 21620
Tailoring
21988 368
1.702%
Engineering
21983 363
1.679%
Leatherworking
*21941 321 1.485%
Blacksmithing
21852 232 1.073%
Alchemy
21849 229 1.059%
Jewelcrafting
21863 243 1.124%
Inscription
21852 232 1.073%
Enchanting
21867 247 1.142%
Herbalism
21755 135 0.624%
Skinning
21684 64 0.296%
Mining
21622 -
* The differences between the professions that all provide 80 Intellect seen here is just simulation noise. Leatherworking's value is inflated because the 130 Int enchant replaces 50 haste in these tests rather than the more expensive 50 Int *
Other Options
DPS
Difference
Percentage
Agony
with
Charred Glyph
20774 -455 -2.143%
Stat Weights
Sta
Int
SP
Hit
Crit
Haste
Mastery
Demonology
http://chardev.org/?profile=107872
Wowhead
Scale Factors 0.0000 2.7145 2.1282 1.5238 0.8879 0.8748 1.0166
Normalized 0.0000 1.0000 0.7840 0.5614 0.3271 0.3223 0.3745
Destruction
http://chardev.org/?profile=107873
Wowhead
Scale Factors 0.0000 2.7982 2.2000 1.6016 0.8866 1.1438 0.8042
Normalized 0.0000 1.0000 0.7862 0.5724 0.3169 0.4088 0.2874
Affliction - SB
http://chardev.org/?profile=107875
Wowhead
Scale Factors 0.0000 2.9115 2.3381 1.2986 0.9019 1.1150 0.7125
Normalized 0.0000 1.0000 0.8030 0.4460 0.3098 0.3830 0.2447
Affliction - Drain
http://chardev.org/?profile=107876
Wowhead
Scale Factors 0.0000 3.0368 2.4375 1.2654 1.0036 1.0990 0.9454
Normalized 0.0000 1.0000 0.8027 0.4167 0.3305 0.3619 0.3113
BiS stat weights for reference:
Int
SP
Hit
Crit
Haste
Mastery
AffDrain_T11_359_PTR 3.2180 2.5176 1.7816 1.2152 1.3696 1.0367
AffDrain_T11_372_PTR 3.3616 2.6421 1.9833 1.3267 1.4029 1.2137
Affliction_T11_359_PTR 3.1278 2.4991 1.7165 1.1305 1.3472 0.8621
Affliction_T11_372_PTR 3.2781 2.5878 1.9391 1.2908 1.4997 0.9855
Demonology_T11_359_PTR 2.8564 2.2350 2.0756 1.0934 1.1267 1.2023
Demonology_T11_372_PTR 2.9974 2.3628 2.3271 1.1955 1.1183 1.3699
Destruction_T11_359_PTR 2.9993 2.3045 2.1277 1.0963 1.3032 0.9844
Destruction_T11_372_PTR 3.1103 2.4173 2.4708 1.2068 1.4148 1.1100
Notes
Mana Feed's "per point" value is worked out at costing four talent points since 2 points must be spent on non-DPS increasing talents to reach it.
The Bane of Agony numbers in the Affliction specs also use the glyph and replace the Glyph of Unstable Affliction (lowest value prime).
Different pet options all use the pet's glyph if it has one. This always replaces the lowest value prime glyph.
Professions tests only include enchants/gems, passive and active abilities and not special BoP gear items that the professions provide. This may mean that engineering, Jewelcrafting and Alchemy provide a greater benefit to you than shown here but you will have to assess that for yourself based on your current gear set.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##asakawa##DELIM##
Post by
asakawa
Well, that's completed the majority of what I set out to achieve initially. I've got some ideas for refining and expanding but I would welcome feedback on ways I can make the info easier to read or any other interesting options we have as warlocks that I should include.
Post by
Metalfenrir
I can't even begin to describe how awesome this thread is. Such words don't exist in the English language. I didn't break out the fine tooth comb, but everything looks incredibly solid.
+1337 internets to you good sir.
Post by
TheVorago
props for the most beautiful layout I've so far seen in a wowhead thread Asa :)
and of course for the research. Keep up the great work!
Post by
tugipus
This is incredibly helpful. Well done. You are the main reason i dont suck at my occasional PvE excursions ;o)
Post by
LookOut
\o/
Very nicely done!
Although a small pet peeve: why put affli last? It's in first place when you check out the talent tree :p Not that it matters much, it just seems a tiny bit odd to start with demo and finish with affli :)
Post by
asakawa
Thanks all. I'm glad it will be something people find useful.
@Lookout, honestly it all started because I'm geeky enough that I was just running a few tests on Demo for myself (wanting to know the actual difference between pets and what the different options for a third glyph were) and once I was started I just carried on ^_^
Plus, Aff always goes first by default. I think it's good for Demo to go first for once.
Post by
LookOut
kk it's all good ^_^
Post by
220291
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
756794
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
asakawa
So SB affli spec:
http://www.wowhead.com/talent#IrGr0hsGsdcZI:sMRoVzMo
?
Yeah. After spending 9 points on DPS increasing talents the SB spec has a point left over that you can put in something useful in affliction (as you did going for SB:SoC) or just increasing health with 1/3 Demonic Embrace.
With that said though, the FAQ should be advising you on the absolute optimal. What I'm interested in with this thread is questions like:
"So now I'm being told to use BoD instead of BoA as Affliction, is that really a big increase or can I stick with what I'm used to?"
or:
"I could really use an interrupt on my raid's Nefarian attempts. Do I lose a ton of DPS if I use the Felhunter?"
Post by
LookOut
Asakawa, for some reason your posts are starting to give me scrollbars up the a-hole ...
Post by
asakawa
Hmm, that's interesting.
Any better now? Using table tags should scale everything to the user's own window but perhaps that's not always the case.
Do the main posts in this thread use scrollbars too?
Post by
539323
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
asakawa
Hehe, you think there's enough stuff there for a ToC?
Happy to do one of course ^_^
Post by
539323
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Gnub
Added to the list of Helpful Threads - loving the layout, very well done :)
Post by
asakawa
Thanks Mr Gnu!
ToC added ganimede, just for you ^_^
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