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Can Azshara be stronger than Deathwing?
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Post by
Frostshamadin
I did not mean any as in "any ordinary" i meant any as in "any at all"
I am well aware of who Azshara is
It's believed she is now a demigod.
Well correct me if I am wrong, but nothing has been seen or heard from her since she went all fishy under the sea
I mean if it has been confirmed that she is more powerfull now, which i suppose would make sence, one would still need to see an example of her powers before being able to judge.
But during the events of War of the Ancients, while she was very powerful, she was no demigod and certinly not as powerful as Ragnaros, nevermind Deathwing (although I would say full power ragnaros > deathwing back then)
Post by
Gone
Not this again, this debate got kinda ugly earlier >.>
I did not mean any as in "any ordinary" i meant any as in "any at all"
I am well aware of who Azshara is
It's believed she is now a demigod.
Well correct me if I am wrong, but nothing has been seen or heard from her since she went all fishy under the sea
I mean if it has been confirmed that she is more powerfull now, which i suppose would make sence, one would still need to see an example of her powers before being able to judge.
But during the events of War of the Ancients, while she was very powerful, she was no demigod and certinly not as powerful as Ragnaros, nevermind Deathwing (although I would say full power ragnaros > deathwing back then)
Thats what a lot of the debate was about earlier, weather or not she got a power boost and how much it boosted her by. Because no nothing has been seen of her since she became the sushi queen
It seems likley that she did get some kind of an upgrade, but since we cant be sure how much stronger it made her, and since we dont even know for sure if she got one, I judge her by her level of power in Wota.
Look at it this way, back during the Old Gods occupation of Azeroth, the Elemental Lords turned the entire planet into a primordial wasteland that could barley support life, just by fighting one another, they were not even aiming their destructive force against the planet itself. Azshara, as strong as she is, just dosnt have that much juice in her IMO. And Deathwing is even stronger than raggy now O.o
Post by
Patty
Well, she
does
show up in Darkshore, but she doesn't really do anything. All she says is "lol distracted u malfurion, me gd tank while raggy nuked hyjal lol". Nonetheless,
wowpedia
argues that she is a demigod - but it is debatable; I'm just presenting that argument. Hence the use of 'it is believed'.
Post by
Gone
Well, she
does
show up in Darkshore, but she doesn't really do anything. All she says is "lol distracted u malfurion, me gd tank while raggy nuked hyjal lol". Nonetheless,
wowpedia
argues that she is a demigod - but it is debatable; I'm just presenting that argument. Hence the use of 'it is believed'.
mmmmmm Wowpedia argues that the Lich King is a demigod as well, and he much less powerfull than Azshara and Ragnaros, nevermind Deathwing
IMO we just have to wait untill she shows up in game
Post by
Adamsm
/sigh counts to 10...counts to 20...counts to 30...
Alright:
1. About the Guardian: Medivh and all those who have held the title were as powerful as they were due to the powers that backed them, the Council of Tirisfal. They have all been able to do things that mortals cannot: Alodi the first Guardian reduced the Dreadlord Kathra'natir to a spirit creature that has been on Azeroth since, rather then sending him back to the Nether(and the Dreadlord is currently sealed in the body of Meryl Felstorm). Aegwynn, draining her Council of their Powers because she did not want to give them up, used them to keep herself alive for 800 years, and at her height destroyed the Avatar of Sargeras, which was summoned to Azeroth by a horde of Demons that were slaughtering Dragons(see the Dragonhunt story/poem). Medivh, using the powers he in turn drained from Aegwynn, while under the influence of Sargeras Avatar, never actually called on true hellfire from It, but was able to pull off great works of magic: Opening the Dark Portal, summoning Demons into the rooms of his 'watchers' in Stormwind to kill them and remove their influence from Medivh. Med'an, using the powers he learned, has pulled off moves such as flash frying a massive Faceless One, using the power of Aitesh, and 'defeating' Cho'gall....as well as inadvertently killing some of his own council. The Guardian is a special thing that has only existed on Azeroth for about 2800 years or so, and there was a large stretch from the end of the First War to recently where there hasn't been a Guardian.
2. The Elemental Lords: The top leaders of the Old God Armies during the age of Chaos on Azeroth, that, like their leaders, required the Titan forger team working together to banish all of them to the Elemental Planes. These Four are more then likely stronger then the Aspects of Azeroth; after all, all four of them are living embodiments of the components of the Universe.
3. The Aspects: Still stand by Nozdormu being the actual strongest due to what he is. But all of the Aspects were originally be created to be equal, and empowered by the Titans at the same time: all five were also given all of their 'ultimate' power at that point. The only times increases have occurred was due to side affects of other situations: Deathwing healing in Deepholme and Malygos draining the ley lines of Northrend and sending the energy into himself. We've seen it where when the Aspects group up, they over whelm the one they are fighting. And place an Aspect into the realms that they have the full power over, I don't see anything being able to take them down there.
4. The Demi-gods of Azeroth: Beings of immense power, who cannot die and merely travel to the Dream at the time of their 'death'. They have been coming back after all, and the ones in Hyjal assist us in defeating creatures forged by both the Destroyer and the Firelord.
5. Azshara: Hate her, mock her, whatever you want: she was still the equal of a Lord of the Legion at the time of War of the Ancients; thinking she's gotten weaker since, when everything else in the Warcraft universe grows stronger as time past, is just being stubborn. We've also seen a lot of creatures that end up with Old God upgrades being far superior to what they were originally: Loken being able to beat Thorim, Cho'gall, the Faceless betrayers we've seen, and the entire race of the Quarji.
Post by
Gone
/sigh counts to 10...counts to 20...counts to 30...
Alright:
1. About the Guardian: Medivh and all those who have held the title were as powerful as they were due to the powers that backed them, the Council of Tirisfal. They have all been able to do things that mortals cannot: Alodi the first Guardian reduced the Dreadlord Kathra'natir to a spirit creature that has been on Azeroth since, rather then sending him back to the Nether(and the Dreadlord is currently sealed in the body of Meryl Felstorm). Aegwynn, draining her Council of their Powers because she did not want to give them up, used them to keep herself alive for 800 years, and at her height destroyed the Avatar of Sargeras, which was summoned to Azeroth by a horde of Demons that were slaughtering Dragons(see the Dragonhunt story/poem). Medivh, using the powers he in turn drained from Aegwynn, while under the influence of Sargeras Avatar, never actually called on true hellfire from It, but was able to pull off great works of magic: Opening the Dark Portal, summoning Demons into the rooms of his 'watchers' in Stormwind to kill them and remove their influence from Medivh. Med'an, using the powers he learned, has pulled off moves such as flash frying a massive Faceless One, using the power of Aitesh, and 'defeating' Cho'gall....as well as inadvertently killing some of his own council. The Guardian is a special thing that has only existed on Azeroth for about 2800 years or so, and there was a large stretch from the end of the First War to recently where there hasn't been a Guardian.
2. The Elemental Lords: The top leaders of the Old God Armies during the age of Chaos on Azeroth, that, like their leaders, required the Titan forger team working together to banish all of them to the Elemental Planes. These Four are more then likely stronger then the Aspects of Azeroth; after all, all four of them are living embodiments of the components of the Universe.
3. The Aspects: Still stand by Nozdormu being the actual strongest due to what he is. But all of the Aspects were originally be created to be equal, and empowered by the Titans at the same time: all five were also given all of their 'ultimate' power at that point. The only times increases have occurred was due to side affects of other situations: Deathwing healing in Deepholme and Malygos draining the ley lines of Northrend and sending the energy into himself. We've seen it where when the Aspects group up, they over whelm the one they are fighting. And place an Aspect into the realms that they have the full power over, I don't see anything being able to take them down there.
4. The Demi-gods of Azeroth: Beings of immense power, who cannot die and merely travel to the Dream at the time of their 'death'. They have been coming back after all, and the ones in Hyjal assist us in defeating creatures forged by both the Destroyer and the Firelord.
5. Azshara: Hate her, mock her, whatever you want: she was still the equal of a Lord of the Legion at the time of War of the Ancients; thinking she's gotten weaker since, when everything else in the Warcraft universe grows stronger as time past, is just being stubborn. We've also seen a lot of creatures that end up with Old God upgrades being far superior to what they were originally: Loken being able to beat Thorim, Cho'gall, the Faceless betrayers we've seen, and the entire race of the Quarji.
That was very well put. I agree with most of it, as for Azshara vs Deathwing, lets just wait untill she shows up in game before debating that further. I was thinking about it, if indeed she was turned by N'Zoth, which i think is likley since he is probobly under the ocean, then maby we will see her in this expansion. Kind of a Halion type encounter (well maby half halion, half kiljaeded since she is relevent to the plot), or if not she will certinly be in the next one, like you said we might not see N'Zoth till the next expansion, so she could be a boss then, or if we do kill him in Cataclysm she could be the end game boss of the next expansion, the plot could be with the Old God dead she is free to carry out her own plans, kind of a Sarah Karegan type of thing. In any case, well just have to see what comes.
Post by
Frostshamadin
/sigh counts to 10...counts to 20...counts to 30...
Alright:
1. About the Guardian: Medivh and all those who have held the title were as powerful as they were due to the powers that backed them, the Council of Tirisfal. They have all been able to do things that mortals cannot: Alodi the first Guardian reduced the Dreadlord Kathra'natir to a spirit creature that has been on Azeroth since, rather then sending him back to the Nether(and the Dreadlord is currently sealed in the body of Meryl Felstorm). Aegwynn, draining her Council of their Powers because she did not want to give them up, used them to keep herself alive for 800 years, and at her height destroyed the Avatar of Sargeras, which was summoned to Azeroth by a horde of Demons that were slaughtering Dragons(see the Dragonhunt story/poem). Medivh, using the powers he in turn drained from Aegwynn, while under the influence of Sargeras Avatar, never actually called on true hellfire from It, but was able to pull off great works of magic: Opening the Dark Portal, summoning Demons into the rooms of his 'watchers' in Stormwind to kill them and remove their influence from Medivh. Med'an, using the powers he learned, has pulled off moves such as flash frying a massive Faceless One, using the power of Aitesh, and 'defeating' Cho'gall....as well as inadvertently killing some of his own council. The Guardian is a special thing that has only existed on Azeroth for about 2800 years or so, and there was a large stretch from the end of the First War to recently where there hasn't been a Guardian.
2. The Elemental Lords: The top leaders of the Old God Armies during the age of Chaos on Azeroth, that, like their leaders, required the Titan forger team working together to banish all of them to the Elemental Planes. These Four are more then likely stronger then the Aspects of Azeroth; after all, all four of them are living embodiments of the components of the Universe.
3. The Aspects: Still stand by Nozdormu being the actual strongest due to what he is. But all of the Aspects were originally be created to be equal, and empowered by the Titans at the same time: all five were also given all of their 'ultimate' power at that point. The only times increases have occurred was due to side affects of other situations: Deathwing healing in Deepholme and Malygos draining the ley lines of Northrend and sending the energy into himself. We've seen it where when the Aspects group up, they over whelm the one they are fighting. And place an Aspect into the realms that they have the full power over, I don't see anything being able to take them down there.
4. The Demi-gods of Azeroth: Beings of immense power, who cannot die and merely travel to the Dream at the time of their 'death'. They have been coming back after all, and the ones in Hyjal assist us in defeating creatures forged by both the Destroyer and the Firelord.
5. Azshara: Hate her, mock her, whatever you want: she was still the equal of a Lord of the Legion at the time of War of the Ancients; thinking she's gotten weaker since, when everything else in the Warcraft universe grows stronger as time past, is just being stubborn. We've also seen a lot of creatures that end up with Old God upgrades being far superior to what they were originally: Loken being able to beat Thorim, Cho'gall, the Faceless betrayers we've seen, and the entire race of the Quarji.
Thank you for that long post explaining what we already knew. None of that was anything new, and none of it has any bearing on the discussion at hand, weather or not Azshara is as powerful as Deathwing
Post by
Adamsm
Thank you for that long post explaining what we already knew. None of that was anything new, and none of it has any bearing on the discussion at hand, weather or not Azshara is as powerful as Deathwing
Well considering what you posted there
, seems like you needed a refresher.
Post by
Gone
Thank you for that long post explaining what we already knew. None of that was anything new, and none of it has any bearing on the discussion at hand, weather or not Azshara is as powerful as Deathwing
Well there is no concrete proof anyone can offer weather or not Azshara is weaker, stronger, or equal to Deathwing. From the begining people have been posting their opinions and discussing the merits of Azshara, Ragnaros, Deathwing, and The Lich King. Which is the same thing you did with your post, so no trolling plz
Also
2. The Elemental Lords: The top leaders of the Old God Armies during the age of Chaos on Azeroth, that, like their leaders, required the Titan forger team working together to banish all of them to the Elemental Planes. These Four are more then likely stronger then the Aspects of Azeroth; after all, all four of them are living embodiments of the components of the Universe.
Adam did you just change your mind O.o
I never thought id see the day
Post by
Adamsm
No, I've never said anywhere that Rag and his friends weren't stronger then the Aspects. I've also never compared the strength of Azshara to an Elemental Lord either; only to Deathwing when I was making the list of pure Azerothian threats: If you noticed, I always listed the remaining Old Gods first, Deathwing and Azshara tied for second, the King was third below them, and the lesser generals of their forces were lower then all; I've rarely if ever listed the Legion or the Lords in that list.
Post by
Gone
And no, but sorry, Ragnaros and the other Elemental Lords while they are powerful, are probably not as powerful as the Aspects, even with their powers restored to full
Post by
Adamsm
I stand corrected then....probably wasn't thinking when I posted that.
Post by
Gone
probably wasn't thinking when I posted that.
I think you just like to disagree with me >.>
no lol jk
But i find it curious that even power boosted as he is, that Deathwing could controll 2 elemental lords, and at the same time fight two others, it seems kind of like lore villains come off weaker in game then they are in lore
Post by
Adamsm
He doesn't really control them; Rag is working with him to destroy everything, and they are never really clear why the Lord of Wind is working with him either, beyond messing with mortals. Therazane is also dealing with her own problems in Deepholme, which may or may not have been ordered by Deathwing, since some of the Cultists make reference to Old God leading their plans instead of the Ex-Aspect. And Neptulon is only engaged because the Naga attacked him; if Deathwing left the seas and oceans alone, he wouldn't have any conflicts with the Lord of Water, especially since Nept isn't fond of either Rag or Therazane, so he wouldn't throw in support to either of them.
Post by
Gone
He doesn't really control them; Rag is working with him to destroy everything, and they are never really clear why the Lord of Wind is working with him either, beyond messing with mortals. Therazane is also dealing with her own problems in Deepholme, which may or may not have been ordered by Deathwing, since some of the Cultists make reference to Old God leading their plans instead of the Ex-Aspect. And Neptulon is only engaged because the Naga attacked him; if Deathwing left the seas and oceans alone, he wouldn't have any conflicts with the Lord of Water, especially since Nept isn't fond of either Rag or Therazane, so he wouldn't throw in support to either of them.
Well take Neptulon being carried off by that giant squid then, just seems unlikley. Especialy since he is supposed to be the most powerful of the four.
Although I suppose Nep could have been weakened by either the attacking nagga or the Old God, or probobly both seeing as how we see them and Faceless ones attacking him in ToT
Post by
Adamsm
But that was Naga who set that up; not Deathwing. In fact, no where in Vash do you see any Twilight Cultists or dragon flight members; whatever game the Naga are playing, their strings are being manipulated by the Old Gods, not the Ex-Earth Warder. Nept was also weakened when Ozmat captured him; the Naga had drained a portion of his powers before hand after all.
Post by
Gone
But that was Naga who set that up; not Deathwing. In fact, no where in Vash do you see any Twilight Cultists or dragon flight members; whatever game the Naga are playing, their strings are being manipulated by the Old Gods, not the Ex-Earth Warder. Nept was also weakened when Ozmat captured him; the Naga had drained a portion of his powers before hand after all.
Nah i meant as an example of how they seem to be making the Elemental Lords less powerful in game than they are in lore, not as an example of Deathwing working against Nep
Post by
Adamsm
Eh, again, Nept was weakened by that spell before he was put into the Throne of Tides; he also spent a lot of energy to try to cleanse the taint of the Old Gods and their servants during the final battle so seeing him captured there isn't that much of a stretch.
Post by
Gone
Eh, again, Nept was weakened by that spell before he was put into the Throne of Tides; he also spent a lot of energy to try to cleanse the taint of the Old Gods and their servants during the final battle so seeing him captured there isn't that much of a stretch.
Yaa i guess, it just that it seems like they use that excuse a lot
Post by
Adamsm
Well, it's either the 'excuse' or.....*Do you want to release from your body?* constantly lol.
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