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Can Azshara be stronger than Deathwing?
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Post by
Stabhorn
Azshara = Powerful Naga Sorceress
Deathwing = Aspect of Death, corrupted Dragon Aspect.
Deathwing wins. I doubt there would even be a real fight. The Four Dragon Aspects, along with Thrall and the Adventurers couldn't even defeat him. Only the Dragon Soul could kill him. How could Azshara even hope to stand against him?
And Mannoroth never saw Azshara as his superior, he despised her. He was powerful enough to virtually hold the Well of Eternity's portal open by himself for a small time. Azshara could never match that.
The first part of your post didn't even include one of Azshara's titles. And yes, Deathwing's is more intimidating, but titles don't speak for one's power (unless used for ranking; king, queen, general, etc.)
Mannoroth did say her powers were beyond his own. It was so great that no one can match her besides Archimonde and, presumably (in Mannoroth's perspective), Sargeras. Illidan also saw some kind of aura encasing her - this is probably why people find her so charismatic and even lesser demons are enticed by her.
Azshara kept her throne room in a bubble while the world around her imploded. That is underestimated by some people thinking that trying to not drown (and failing) is such an easy thing to do for a spellcaster. It wasn't! The world's most powerful and prominent source of magic - pure swirling, tainted, arcane energies - was exploding around you. No one could have survived that if they were just some "powerful sorceress". And, it's stated that while she was trying to save her and her handmaidens, she was doing a pretty good job with the shield, it just so happens that casting this spell was the first time she had ever exerted effort (and had caused her to break the first sweat of her life), so this, in a way, shocked her. It's still debatable whether she even needed the Old Gods' help. She was doing a fine job with keeping the crushing waters of the Well of Eternity and
the sea itself!
from harming her and her servants on her own (without the help of any of the Highborne present), she just needed to keep holding that shield until she can find a way to escape her predicament (perhaps a powerful yet draining teleportation spell). An/the Old God/s found her valuable enough to save her because she wasn't just any sorceress. She was powerful on her own. They started whispering tempting things to her and she
let
the waters in. She didn't accept the help because she needed it. She accepted the help because she
wanted
it. Now, with boost from the Old Gods, she's much more powerful than she was. Add Neptulon's power and 10,000 years of plotting - she's a BEAST.
But, I wouldn't say Deathwing wouldn't put up a fight. I think Azshara would have a REALLY hard time in clashing with the former Earth-warder.
I wasn't comparing titles but racials. Aspect of Death versus Spell Caster.
I find it implausible that Mannoroth thought that a Titan (The conqueror of thousands upon thousands of worlds. And let's not forget that a small group of Titans battled and defeated all five Old Gods.) would be the equal of a mortal(immortal technically.) spell caster.
And Azshara was really losing that battle against the ocean. In fact, she only accepted the proposal from the Old Gods (Three were involved, probably C'Thun, N'Zoth and Yogg-Saron, though that may be debatable. We know it wasn't Y'Shaarj, since he was dead at the time.) If Azshara hadn't accepted the gift of the Old Gods, she would have perished with her handmaidens. She did not let the waters in. Now, she's had ten thousand years to plan, and I believe that when she returns she'll have a MAJOR scheme in motion. But, though Neptulon's fate is unknown, Azshara does not have his powers. We also have no proof that the naga were given powers by the Old God, only that they changed their bodies and bought their loyalty.
In actuality, it's pawn of the Old Gods that was created as an afterthought versus a pawn that was crafted over ten thousand years and directly empowered by them.
You pointed out that that's the first time Azshara has ever exerted effort, and that is true. She hasn't really displayed other great founts of power. Most powerful of the Highborne, certainly, but not a match for the Chosen of Titans and Old Gods.
Post by
1465241
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Post by
Stabhorn
But the Dragon Aspects were at the pinnacle of their power during the War of the Ancients, and only got weaker from that point on. (Since their magic was drained by the Dragon Soul, except for Deathwing.)
Azshara was tapped into the Well, that's where her magic came from. Without it, she only had her innate ability, which was potent, yet mortal. Aegwynn is a thousand times more powerful than Azshara, and she couldn't even best an Avatar of a Titan.
And the Old Gods did not need Azshara. They took her because there was a glimmer of potential, just for the same reason that Archimonde spared the night elves. (Sargeras was going to kill them all, including Azshara who was convinced she would wed him, as soon as he came out of the portal.) You forget that it was Azshara who was amazed by the power shown by Mannoroth and Archimonde. She took Mannoroth to a stand-still, using the power of the Well only. The magic of the Well of Eternity is greater than Kil'jaedan, Archimonde, Mannoroth and Azshara, and nearly equal to that of Sargeras. But even that pales before the Old Gods.
Post by
1465241
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Stabhorn
If Jaina was tapping into the Well then she could have matched both Archimonde and Mannoroth, same goes for Aegwynn. And you argue that there's no arguments for Mannoroth's power over her, well that can go both ways. We've seen Azshara show power exactly twice. She stopped one blow by Mannoroth(Who wasn't ready for it) and then delayed her own death by mere minutes. (And I'd like to point out that potential is different from need. The Old Gods have never needed Azshara, she has never been an instrument to their release.)
Because of this lack of display on Azshara's part, I don't know where you get the idea that she's so powerful.
I'll give you a different example of characters with the same level of power differences;
Try Anduin instead of Azshara and Archimonde instead of Deathwing.
Can Anduin Wyrnn be stronger than Archimonde?
Can? Maybe, but the outcome would almost definitely be in favor of Archimonde.
Now in sheer, raw might? Archimonde wins hands down.
Post by
1465241
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
Because of this lack of display on Azshara's part, I don't know where you get the idea that she's so powerful.Considering she turned the loyalty of a large group of demons away from the Legion and put them under her power....the fact that she held off the entire ocean for several hours after the Sundering...the fact that again, Mannoroth states she was more powerful then he was and that she was the equal to the Eredar commanders and maybe even Sargeras. We have no idea what her Old God upgrade has done; but we did see her arrange everything in Darkshore to keep Mal busy while Rag attacked Hyjal.
Queen Big $%^& was the most powerful non-dragon mage on the planet 10 thousand years ago; somehow, I really doubt that's changed since she would be growing in power ever since and has had the Old God upgrade.
Edit: Also, once she added her power to the matrix powering the Portal....it ripped open in no time flat, becoming large enough that Sargeras could walk through it. Yes, she had the Well to draw on....but before then, she was the most powerful of the Night Elf magi and had been ruling the kingdom for possibly at least 14k years(at least if the references are correct). She helped make the kingdom of the Kaledori what it was up until the Sundering.
Post by
1465241
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Post by
morginar
Mannoroth states she was more powerful then he was and that she was the equal to the Eredar commanders and maybe even Sargeras.No, Mannoroth mentaly state that her powerlevel is on the same level as Archimonde and Kil'jaeden. But not Sargeras.Edit: Also, once she added her power to the matrix powering the Portal....it ripped open in no time flat, becoming large enough that Sargeras could walk through it.
I remember reading something along those lines. Can you tell me which part was that in War of the Ancients?
No, I think that is when with the help of the Dragon/demon Soul, It was Sargeras himself that made the portal.
Post by
Adamsm
Edit: Also, once she added her power to the matrix powering the Portal....it ripped open in no time flat, becoming large enough that Sargeras could walk through it.
I remember reading something along those lines. Can you tell me which part was that in War of the Ancients?
No, I think that is when with the help of the Dragon/demon Soul, It was Sargeras himself that made the portal.
Actually.... no; the Highborne were playing with magic and opened up a small gate way. Then they were sent Mannoroth to force it open wider. Then they stole the Demon Soul to try to open it even wider...and then at the climax of the third book, with the rebellion armies at the gates of the city and all of the Ancients and the flights arrayed against them with Deathwing trying desperately to steal back the Soul, Azshara got off her ass and tore the Portal open completely, infusing it with her power.
Post by
morginar
Wait wait wait.
Didn't Illidan get the dragon soul, then Sargeras ninja'd it and used it himself? Where does the Queen enter in this?
Post by
Adamsm
No, Malfurion got the Soul, then had it stolen by members of the Highborne who had been told of it by Illidan and added it to the Portal matrix. The Queen though, as the most powerful of the Highborne and the Night Elves, gave the original order to investigate the portal they opened, then told Xavius and his magi to work with the demons to let out her husband. At the end of the book, upset that her 'invincible' armies were losing, decided to finally add her immense considerable power to the mix and ripped the Portal open even though Mal and Illidan were attempting to shut it down. If Brox, Rhonin and Krasus as well as rebellion mages hadn't of injured Sargeras, causing the dark titan to scream which disrupted the concentration of those casting the portal spell, he would have been able to get out.
That's leaving aside as the Well imploded and a portion of the city sank into the sea, Aszhara and Azshara alone put up a shield that held back the ocean itself for several days before she finally weakened, which was when the Old God offered her a tentacle of assistance.
Post by
1465241
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
1465241
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
1465241
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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