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A rant about my Birther, YEC, Zionist parents.
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Post by
324987
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Monday
If you take the Bible to be written by prophets as it was happening, I'm fairly sure that means it was around before any of those.
Post by
Orranis
Sure, but take say, Norse mythology. That wasn't exactly about educating the masses and creating morals, more a bunch of kick-ass tales used to explain the world. And be badass.
Well, if you died heroically, you would be going to Valhalla, if you died a coward, Hel would have your soul for all eternity....And of course the Egyptian, Chinese, Japanese(which people still believe in), Buddhism, and others existed before the writing of the Bible, and some of them still exist now a days.
I'm not just talking about the Abrahamic Religions. I'm not going to discuss the history of oriental cultures as I'm out of my depth there, but I feel there is more then enough examples of people who've developed morals without any sort of 'divine influence' (and you have to understand I believe these were written by people who developed morals themselves and only want to press them onto society).
If you take the Bible to be written by prophets as it was happening, I'm fairly sure that means it was around before any of those.
Probably not actually, as pretty all of the Old Testament lore references older Paganic religions that existed, even as far back as Abraham.
Post by
124027
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Post by
Adamsm
I'm not just talking about the Abrahamic Religions. I'm not going to discuss the history of oriental cultures as I'm out of my depth there, but I feel there is more then enough examples of people who've developed morals without any sort of 'divine influence' (and you have to understand I believe these were written by people who developed morals themselves and only want to press them onto society).Care to name 5? And I'm serious here, would like to know five civilizations that managed to avoid the whole religion issue.
Post by
124027
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Post by
324987
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Khorrupt
There would probably be a few, if you didn't count mythology as religeon.
Post by
Orranis
I'm not just talking about the Abrahamic Religions. I'm not going to discuss the history of oriental cultures as I'm out of my depth there, but I feel there is more then enough examples of people who've developed morals without any sort of 'divine influence' (and you have to understand I believe these were written by people who developed morals themselves and only want to press them onto society).Care to name 5? And I'm serious here, would like to know five civilizations that managed to avoid the whole religion issue.
I know there was one in Indonesia. And that doesn't even count as a civilisation. More of a tribe. And even they acknowledged that there might be "something out there" they just didn't see why it should influence them.
I'm talking about Organized Religion, specifically Organize Religion that makes defined statements about morals. Not just religion in general.
Edit: I suppose Religion that is not organized but does enforce morals wouldn't count either.
Post by
Khorrupt
I'm talking about Organized Religion, specifically Organize Religion that makes defined statements about morals. Not just religion in general.
Edit: I suppose Religion that is not organized but does enforce morals wouldn't count either.
I suppose so, but where would the human race be today, if there were no early religions?
Post by
Tartonga
No, they don't.
Catholicism = contraception is ok in cases where it would be used to prevent the spread of disease (particularly those that could harm development in the womb).
Protestantism = all bar a few small highly conservative sects accept contraception and all forms of family planning.
Anglican = similar views to Protestantism in regards contraception.
Evangelicals = Generally anti contraception.
Jehova's Witnesses = "So if a couple should decide to exclude the possibility of a pregnancy by using some form of contraception, that is their choice to make, and no one should judge them. (Romans 14:4, 10-13)" Was all I could find. Apparently it's entirely up to the couple.
1 out of 5, and the second smallest sects of the 5 kind of shows that you are mistaken in your generalised view.
The catholicism is against contraception, they even have a
web-page
about it. Luckily, there are catholicists that do not follow that, but again
the religion does
.
Same happens with judaism.
Protestantism is different depending on the church, there are churches that approve contraception, others not.
Anglicans, in general, do now accept it.
Evangelicals are, in general, against it.
JWs do accept it.
I see it more like 3,5 of 6 of the biggest christian religions are against contraception.
Post by
Orranis
I'm talking about Organized Religion, specifically Organize Religion that makes defined statements about morals. Not just religion in general.
Edit: I suppose Religion that is not organized but does enforce morals wouldn't count either.
I suppose so, but where would the human race be today, if there were no early religions?
It's impossible to tell. For all we know it could have become a utopia just as easily as a hellhole. Rhetorical questions don't get us anywhere.
Post by
Skreeran
I would wager that religion did benefit mankind at some point in our past. There has to be an evolutionary reason for it. (If it was just a memeplex, mental virus type thing that had no benefits, the negative consequences would have created a selective pressure against it, like birds in arms races with cuckoos).
However, just because it was beneficial in the past does not mean it's necessarily beneficial now. While moderate, progressive religions can be benign, fundamentalism is most certainly malignant.
Post by
Pwntiff
Yeah, we had the Dark Ages where the Church repressed all scientific advances, then the Renaissance, and now it seems that some groups are almost trying to impose another Dark Age.
Religion started as a way to explain what couldn't be explained, few very people try to deny that. However, science still only answers the "How?" and religion/philosophy answers the "Why?". That's one reason I get irked about Young Earth and Intelligent Design, and whatnot.
Last month, a tourist was in the barbershop and he and the barber where having a discussion about what makes Jehovah's Witnesses different from other sects of Christianity. According to him, they take the Bible as
the
Word of God, cover to cover. They don't pick and choose what they want to make themselves feel better about themselves or their prejudices, and one thing that he said that scored points with me was that nowhere in the Bible does it actually define how long a Day of Creation was. "...with the Lord one day is as a thousand years..." is the verse he used.
Post by
Squishalot
Actually, you can. :P
1. That they are tediologies, have notions of a higher purpose.
2. That they seek to explain everything.
Not all religion seeks to explain everything. Nor do they necessarily provide for moral codes / higher purposes.
I'm not just talking about the Abrahamic Religions. I'm not going to discuss the history of oriental cultures as I'm out of my depth there, but I feel there is more then enough examples of people who've
developed morals without any sort of 'divine influence'
(and you have to understand I believe these were written by people who developed morals themselves and only want to press them onto society).Care to name 5? And I'm serious here, would like to know five civilizations that managed to avoid the whole religion issue.
I know there was one in Indonesia. And that doesn't even count as a civilisation. More of a tribe. And even they acknowledged that there might be "something out there" they just
didn't see why it should influence them
.
Isn't that where Agnostics / soft-Atheists are today?
Besides, you're proving his point with that last bolded statement.
@ Skreeran: Can you explain precisely how your sister is enjoying Christian radio (i.e. Christian tendancies) but happily indulging in your parents' Zionist rants? They seem completely contradictory to me.
Post by
Orranis
"...with the Lord one day is as a thousand years..." is the verse he used.
I personally hate this verse, because to me it seems like doing exactly that, picking and choosing, dodging around, etc. One day has always been defined to me as the time it takes the planet to revolve completely on it's own axis, thus one Saturn-Day is different to an Earth-Day, or just a time measurement of twenty hours. You could say that "How a thousand years feels to the Lord is as a day feels to us," but the fact is that a day is still a day. Something that takes seven days will never actually take billions of years. That's not how relativity works, and defies the very nature of how we perceive time. Before people turned up with facts that the earth was made a long-ass time ago, nobody would have said this in the same context. It's used to explain away new reasoning that contradicts faith.
Post by
Orranis
@ Skreeran: Can you explain precisely how your sister is enjoying Christian radio (i.e. Christian tendancies) but happily indulging in your parents' Zionist rants? They seem completely contradictory to me.
Zionism isn't just for Jews, it's commonly associated with the Political Right, which also happens to be associated with Christianity.
Post by
Skreeran
@ Skreeran: Can you explain precisely how your sister is enjoying Christian radio (i.e. Christian tendancies) but happily indulging in your parents' Zionist rants? They seem completely contradictory to me.As I've mentioned before, my parents are Messianic Jewish. They're simultaneously pretty observant Jews (though not as strict as Orthodox), while being Biblical Literalist Christians.
I think they consider themselves Christians first and foremost, but they follow the Old Testament laws because "Even though Jesus made it so that we don't have to follow them to get into Heaven, we follow them to show God how much we love him." Thankfully they pick and choose, so I haven't been stoned yet.
Post by
204878
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Orranis
so I haven't been stoned yet.
That's not what you say in other threads...
Cwutididthar?
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