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Are there only two tanking classes now?
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Post by
Philmckraken
That being said: The folks who claim that Warriors should be Prot because they're the tanks of WoW need to shove off. They're the same people who dropped out of a run I did on Blood Furnace at 65 because we didn't have a Prot Warrior to tank it (even though I was a Prot pally and we had a Feral druid in half tank gear). There's more than one way to skin a cat, and there's more than one group build to run 99% of the instances out there - and if you think that's a nub statement, then whisper me so I can put you on ignore because you're a bonehead.
I think the general consensus is not that warriors are the best tanks, the only tanks, or that warriors should only be prot/tanks...Rather, not many warriors are leveling in protection anymore, making it that much harder to find a tank for any sub-70 instance. Read wowwiki or wowhead when it comes to Paladins, and they say the same thing, "level as ret, then switch to prot when you're way high up." Tanking is a dirty job, but someone has to do it...Except in this case. People play WoW for fun (I hope!) and most people like to see the big gaudy crit numbers flash up, which you just can't get when your primary job is to take a beating. Add to that the near-uselessness of prot-spec in BGs, and for some, 1/2 the fun is gone. Since instances are barely necessary any more, and you don't need a tank-spec to level up by questing, the prot warrior becomes an endangered species. Why there are more prot paladins at lower levels is something I can't explain, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the task taken over entirely by druids, who can tank when it suits them, and do something else when it doesn't.
Post by
141318
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Post by
Marama
and you are playing a tanking class. Don't you have at least some tanking gear?
I disenchanted mine. I'll be using the shards to enchant my new PVP gear when I grind it out.
I always wanted to start a tanking class, but I already got 2 70s and don't want to waste time on lvling another.
I have five 70s, but I don't have time to waste tanking your PUG.
OK, sarcasm aside, I think there's a huge problem nowadays with a false sense of entitlement. DPS classes seem more and more to expect their tanks and healers to take the burden of controlling the fight wholly on their shoulders, and take no responsibility for anything other than their spot on the damage meter.
I think that has a lot to do with the tanking shortage.
Another issue is that you only need a couple of warrior tanks in a raiding guild. Beyond that, extra warriors are either DPS or someone's PVP alt. Those raid tanks aren't likely to show up in a PUG all that often. That doesn't leave a lot of warriors specced for protection. With all the lazy DPS who can't manage their own aggro, prot has practically become a requirement in BC to do even easy content. (Even though it's not a real requirement in the least.)
Paladin tanking is a bit less of a headache in fives, and some people seem to really enjoy it. Got to admit, gathering a bunch of mobs and holding them while your DPS obliterates them is kind of fun. I used to tank for quests that way on my Holy/Prot pally when leveling up.
Feral druids are a lot less headache to tank PUGs with than warriors, and you can spec for both tanking and DPS in one tree, so it's not the same situation as a warrior not being prot spec.
(I've had all three at 70 since beginning of BC.)
Post by
Marama
If the healer actually manages to pull off of you then it IS your fault, you are doing something very wrong.
If your healer pre-HOTs you on a three pull, guess where number two and number three are going when those HOTs tick? A thunderclap or demo shout won't hold the adds nowadays against a well geared healer's HOT ticks, you need to be allowed to actually lay at least one hit on each add before your healer starts. Same for single target heals, though those are usually less of a problem than pre-HOTs.
So, no, sometimes the healer does something very wrong.
Post by
Cannibal
First of all if a caster pulls an aggro it can be discusion whos fault is this (either tank is not generating enough threat, or caster is damn concentrated on recount and not looking Omen/Ktm or which mob tank is actually hitting) but if a healer pulls an aggro it is %99 percent tanks fault no healer's.
Also Correct me if I am wrong but,
If you get an HoT then go in to fight later (for ex: in case of a lifebloom) Bloom part healing counts to your threat table as healing done by you not by Healer.
If he heals/Hots you right after you engage then it is on healer's table diveded by the mob number / 2. (5k heal on five mobs situation on tank = 500 threat on each mob is something imp. thunderclap + demoshout can handle) Due to that reason if you check recount datas healing done of the tank is not all because commanding shout but also Hots received pre fight and lifeblooms etc activeted during fights. At the end its a good thing for a warri not a bad thing.
For tanking fact: It's fun but stressful job, only enjoyed with a good party/group/raid etc. If you dont have a organized guild that does Pve action then you dont wanna be clown of the Pug groups trying to run BEHIND the mobs generating aggro since they dont care/dont know how to handle a Pve fight. After that experiences you have in your are hand huge repair bills, wasted hours with stress and absolute no fun.
Since Blizzard mess Pve & PvP in the same picture, like arenas, honors, dailies PVP/Pve gear obtaining ways, you will see more yell in trade channel: WTB a bloody TANK !! We will be ignoring the screams and play with my moonkin till I believe its worth going there.
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56282
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Post by
Marama
If your healer pre-HOTs you on a three pull, guess where number two and number three are going when those HOTs tick? A thunderclap or demo shout won't hold the adds nowadays against a well geared healer's HOT ticks, you need to be allowed to actually lay at least one hit on each add before your healer starts. Same for single target heals, though those are usually less of a problem than pre-HOTs.
Problem is on a heroic 3 pull there is a fine line between letting you get aggro and letting you get killed , 0.5 second either way is going to decide it, which is why warriors shouldn't be tanking heroics (unless they outgear it or you have a cc orientated group), if i'm running a heroic and theres a paladin tank avaliable i will pick them every time over the warrior (unless i know the warrior personally), why simply because i know that the run is going to be 10 minutes faster, minimum and it's also going to be 5 times smoother.
I agree with you to an extent, but I also believe the general difficulty of heroics is not anywhere near what people seem to think it is. Look at it this way: If you want the tank to actually hit each mob, the minimum time to do it is: Sunder first mob, gcd (1.5 sec), sunder second mob, gcd (1.5 sec), sunder third mob. That's 3 second from the time the pull reaches the tank before every mob can be sundered. That's assuming the first thing the tank does isn't a demo shout or thunderclap, which pushes things up another gcd.
Paladins don't have this issue with consecrate (though you want to let it tick a couple times), and it's a lot lesser issue with druids, who can generate a ton of threat from swipe once they have decent gear. So, yeah, I actually prefer pally and druid tanks too, for those reasons.
If your tank doesn't have the gear to take damage for 3-5 seconds without heals, he's simply undergeared for the instance. If that's the case, then you need a new tank. However, in most cases a good set of blues with entry level stats for starting Kara are good enough for most heroic pulls.
Post by
Philmckraken
Blizzard adding a new tanking class would be horrible. You think prot warriors are hard to find now, well they'll be impossible to find then. Blizzard needs to nerf druids and pallies so they can't tank. Then you will see a greater amount of prot warriors...
Well, that's just about the dumbest suggestion I've ever heard. Your "solution" is to limit the supply of tanks, thereby encouraging more warriors to spec prot? The only way that would help the situation is by making tanks so scarce that they can get away with charging fees for PuG runs, which would lead to its own set of problems...Or eliminate the pre-70 instance altogether.
Druids are a good solo class that can do most anything in the game. This attracts players, thereby increasing the number of available tanks in any scenario. (What's the first thing you hear from the druid that joins your PuG? "What do you want me to do?" I love these guys/gals.) For whatever reason, the protection tree of the paladin class still attracts people, but the reasons for that are mostly speculation on my part. (I have been known to describe paladins as "the think person's melee class." I'm a prot paladin, so draw your own conclusions.) The prot warrior is eliminated, because, to the same or greater degree as a prot pally, once you get 1/3 of the way down the prot talent tree, you're a tank, and that's that. Those Druids can shift forms as it suits them, but you're stuck with a shield in one hand and a weak weapon in the other.
One of the recurring themes from warriors in this thread is "it's not worth my time to tank your crappy PuG." As self-serving as that opinion is, it's true. Refer to my story in this thread for details on why that's true. If you only get a few hours per night of WoW, why waste them doing something that only ends up aggravating you, instead of doing something you enjoy? I'm 2 levels from 70, and still need about 300g for a flying mount, and thousands of honor points for the epic gear I want. Guess what I'm not going to be doing much anymore? That's right, tanking your crappy PuG.
Post by
80968
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Post by
Marama
Also Correct me if I am wrong but,
If you get an HoT then go in to fight later (for ex: in case of a lifebloom) Bloom part healing counts to your threat table as healing done by you not by Healer.
If he heals/Hots you right after you engage then it is on healer's table diveded by the mob number / 2. (5k heal on five mobs situation on tank = 500 threat on each mob is something imp. thunderclap + demoshout can handle) Due to that reason if you check recount datas healing done of the tank is not all because commanding shout but also Hots received pre fight and lifeblooms etc activeted during fights. At the end its a good thing for a warri not a bad thing.
Pre-fight HOTs are fine in general, and lifeblooms are fine, as you said. An example of a bad healer is one who tosses the HOTs right on the pull. The healer is now in combat with the mobs, and the HOT ticks' threat is going to the healer. When the healer is in epics with 2100 plus healing, and the tank is in blues, this is a very serious problem. When the healer dumps ALL their HOTs on you right off the bat, that healer not only WILL get eaten, but deserves to get eaten.
I think I wasn't clear about that first time, and I may have said pre-HOTs when I meant HOTing too early, but after the pull. Was a bit tired when I made that post.
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56282
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103134
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