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Leet DK Tanks help! BloodShield/Mastery - Is hit/exp important?
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Post by
117348
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Orranis
I actually missed that, and you have my apologies. I'll delete the post.
Either way, unless either side wishes to concede defeat, I see no point in stopping.
In case you missed it:
You can. Given a rune cooldown of eight seconds, unless you miss 8 Death Strikes in a row (with a 92% base chance to hit, that's a 0.09% chance), every period of eight seconds will have the same amount of Death Strikes in it.
Post by
MegaVolt
You can. Given a rune cooldown of eight seconds, unless you miss 8 Death Strikes in a row (with a 92% base chance to hit, that's a
0.09%
0,000000168%
chance), every period of eight seconds will have the same amount of
successful
Death Strikes in it.
fixed ;) The total amount of strikes (including the misses) will of course not be constant.
Post by
117348
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
117348
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Orranis
You can. Given a rune cooldown of eight seconds, unless you miss 8 Death Strikes in a row (with a 92% base chance to hit, that's a
0.09%
0,000000168%
chance), every period of eight seconds will have the same amount of
successful
Death Strikes in it.
fixed ;) The total amount of strikes (including the misses) will of course not be constant.
Oops, did my math wrong.You can. Given a rune cooldown of eight seconds, unless you miss 8 Death Strikes in a row (with a 92% base chance to hit, that's a 0.09% chance), every period of eight seconds will have the same amount of
successful
Death Strikes in it.
fixed ;) The total amount of strikes (including the misses) will of course not be constant.
sorry to burst your bubble but I never made that quote lol. That was someone else I quoted.
Gotta work on those reading skills guys hehe.
That was me, he corrected my math (it's a much lower chance then what I posted)"Either way, unless either side wishes to concede defeat, I see no point in stopping."
I now see the maturity level Im going against lol.
Sure, I concede defeat then. Congratulations.
I'm not arguing with you for E-peen, but because of what it means for Death Knights in general. An argument is a series of opposing statements trying to create a proposition. If I can argue you into a corner then it would presumably mean that the method I'm arguing is superior, and thus should be adopted by other DK tanks.
Post by
MegaVolt
sorry to burst your bubble but I never made that quote lol. That was someone else I quoted.
Gotta work on those reading skills guys hehe.
I never said that you made that quote. I guess you have to work on your reading skills.
I fixed Orranis' quote because he forgot a word and he got the probabiliy wrong. Minor and not really that important, I know. Still, I'm a perfectionist ;) It had nothing to do with you.
By the way: You seem to have missed one of my posts on the last page. Page 2, almost at the bottom. Be sure to read it and at least try to understand it ;)
Post by
Orranis
sorry to burst your bubble but I never made that quote lol. That was someone else I quoted.
Gotta work on those reading skills guys hehe.
I never said that you made that quote. I guess you have to work on your reading skills.
Actually I did, accept I accidently used his name on the quote. My fault, has been rectified. Seems he did the same thing.
Post by
MegaVolt
Actually I did, accept I accidently used his name on the quote. My fault, has been rectified. Seems he did the same thing.
Uhm ... what? I'm confused now. Too much quoting and editing of quotes. I think I missed something.
Whatever, it doesn't matter anyway ;) Let's just go back to the last page and pick it up from there:
With your rationale why dont you just compare 100 hits to 10 hits? Why just 12? It makes no sense. I am basing the example on the premise that in both cases you have the time to make the same number of hits.
That's where rune regeneration comes in. As I said several times before: The total amout of DS is only limited by the runes. You regenerate one set every 8 seconds, meaning over 80 seconds (that's the time you have in my example, you can of course pick any other time and calculate the number of DS you can do with your runes in your timeframe) you get the runes for 10 DS.
So in those 80 seconds you can cast 10 DS.
In case none get parried that's it, that's all the runes you have. 10 successful hits out of 10 total strikes.
In case two get parried you get the runes refunded. 80 seconds is a long time so there is plenty of room to do 2 additional DS with the rune refund you just got. That means you actually get to do 12 DS in the same 80 seconds (because the 2 that missed didn't take away any of your runes), 10 of which are successful.
I really can't make it any more clear than that.
Post by
117348
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Orranis
Ok so is the bottom line are you guys saying reforge all my hit and expertise to mastery/avoidance because missed/parried/dodged hits are irrelevant due to runes being refunded on unsuccessful death strikes?
So stack mastery and avoidance and ignore hit/exp?
Don't ignore hit/exp, but definitely reforge away from it. (Except perhaps for certain fights where you like the control). Combine it with Rune Strike's inability to be parried or dodged for burst threat, I think it's very clearly trumped by clearer survival stats.
Post by
MegaVolt
missed/parried/dodged hits are irrelevant due to runes being refunded on unsuccessful death strikes?
Exactly.
What you really want to stack is mastery. That's the prime stat.
Dodge and parry are good but not great.
Hit and exp are pretty much useless for survival but awesome for threat.
You want mastery on every single piece of gear (or reforge into mastery if the piece doesn't have it).
The other secondary stat then is optional:
If you are having threat problems, go with exp or hit.
If you don't have threat problems, go with dodge or parry (the one you currently have less of to minimize diminishing returns).
Post by
117348
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Orranis
Mastery on every piece of gear - that would imply some DPS pieces may be superior to tank pieces? now that defense is non existent, Im guessing the line between dps/tank gear is much more grey.
Yes. There's threads about DK's being tempted to take Tier pants for DPS (even as a Mastery > Avoidance guy, I still would prefer the pants because it's simply more Avoidance then what I think balances out the Mastery, not to mention the socket bonus + set bonus.)
Post by
MegaVolt
Mastery on every piece of gear - that would imply some DPS pieces may be superior to tank pieces? now that defense is non existent, Im guessing the line between dps/tank gear is much more grey.
The problem is that the dps pieces will come with mastery + haste or mastery + crit or something like that. The mastery on those pieces is awesome but haste/crit is completely wasted.
Usually it's better to take the tank item instead. In some cases the dps item (after reforging haste to dodge) is pretty decent, too, but I wouldn't really count on it.
Personally I'd take a tank item with dodge/parry on it (reforge one into mastery) over a dps item with mastery/haste (reforge haste to dodge) but arguments can be made for both. In the end it comes down to how much higher you value mastery than dodge/parry. There isn't really a clear answer to that as far as I know.
Oh, and what Orranis said. Again. He seems to be faster than me quite often ;)
Post by
117348
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Orranis
Gotcha. All valid points, I'll take it into consideration.
I still feel hit/expertise might be valid in one circumstance: what if, and this is very common, you know a big hit is coming (such as through DBM) and you want to time your DS to maximize you BS. If you have low hit/exp, and you miss, yes you will get a refund, but you will also miss out on a big BS.
Seems to me that hit/expertise will however allow you to activate your BS exactly when needed without fear of a miss/dodge/parry. So if timing a DS is key part of a fight, hit/exp could potentially be valuable.
Yeah, that's why I said it could be used, but all in all you should be timing Cooldown's for those big hits so they're actually not so big, and even if the first one misses you still do get a benefit, it's just not as large. However, over the course of a fight, the benefit of having mostly Mastery will generally outweigh it unless you're in critical condition after the hit (in which case it probably should've been cooldown'd.)
Post by
Breckenson
Awww... it's like you guys started being rational beings again and got back on topic. I love a happy ending.
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MegaVolt
I still feel hit/expertise might be valid in one circumstance: what if, and this is very common, you know a big hit is coming (such as through DBM) and you want to time your DS to maximize you BS. If you have low hit/exp, and you miss, yes you will get a refund, but you will also miss out on a big BS.
Yes, this is a valid point (and both Orranis and me mentioned that a few mages earlier by the way). Although there are two things making hit/exp not that great in this situation:
First, you lose out on a lot of dodge/parry to make a significant difference in your chance to hit. The ability to perfectly time your DS and always hit with it costs you around 10% avoidance. That's huge. If you had that avoidance instead chances are high you wouldn't even need to time your DS exactly because you avoid much more damage.
Second, the DS heal is based on the damage of the last 5 seconds. 5 seconds is a very long time. So if you take a damage spike and you hit DS to heal yourself and you miss you just lost 1.5 seconds of that 5 second window. You will still get the full benefit from the huge shield 1.5 seconds later. Even if you miss again you are only 3 seconds behind the damage spike. You still get the full shield. You'd have to miss 4 times in a row (extremely unlikely, not worth thinking about) to leave the 5 second window and miss out on the big shield.
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