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Live
PTR
10.2.7
PTR
10.2.6
Beta
Patch 4.1 on PTR (changes will updated as more information is released)
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Post by
91650
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
hatman555
From the healer side, this is a questionable answer to complaints that pallies were waiting until the healer would start casting before using WOG, then use it to snipe their heals into overhealing.
I am a decently geared tank with a WoG spec, my WoG heals for about 16k on average. If you are healing me at -16K life, your doing something wrong as a healer.
Maybe at lower level (35-70) when WoG is healing for 50% of the paladins life while leveling in 5 man's i could see healers complaining a bit, but still, at the 80+ range,
WoG is not sniping your heals away.
I'd hoped they'd simply make WOG fizzle if a pally tried to use it if they were targeted for a castbar heal. As it is, this is a half measure and not likely to change anything. Twenty seconds just isn't long enough.
While your raiding your dealing with 2 other heals in a 10 man, or up to 7 other healers in a 25 man. Over-healing is bound to happen. In a fight when people don't need to be topped off, don't heal people at 90% life, AOE heals, and hots are going to do that work for you. Asking someone else's heals to fizzle simple because you already have a cast going on them is a bit pretentious in my opinion.
Cheers,
Hat
Post by
226992
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
91650
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
atomicwolf22
While your raiding your dealing with 2 other heals in a 10 man, or up to 7 other healers in a 25 man. Over-healing is bound to happen. In a fight when people don't need to be topped off, don't heal people at 90% life, AOE heals, and hots are going to do that work for you. Asking someone else's heals to fizzle simple because you already have a cast going on them is a bit pretentious in my opinion. Do you remember the stigma associated with overhealing in TBC? You have a certain percentage of overheals before the raid leader starts tearing a hole in you for overhealing and wasting your own mana. Having fairly tight limits on WOG lessens that percentage.
Now, you can accuse me of living in the past all you want. I got that a lot during Lich King when I predicted the nerfs to large group tanking. I also remember going OOM on Moroes, in a properly geared shaman who got screamed at for using Mana Tide and temporarily dropping Poison Cleansing. And the circle jerk about how "you gotta have heroic gears for Kara and Kara gears for heroics, so get into those BGs and grind some welfare epics!" I'd like to spare up-and-coming healers that frustration.
You are living in the past. Your talking about BC and were in Cata now. Look at the Rake 2 of the Guarded by light talent.
The extra over heal works like a blood Dk's Blood Shield. So its not being a waste if you overheal a tankadin. If a healer Oom's themselves then one of 2 things is happening. There using to big of healing spells (I.E. cost to much mana thats needed) Or 2. Dps/Tank is being dumb and standing in crap.
Example of my #1 point is a Holyadin using HL when FoL would have got the job done.
Post by
hatman555
Do you remember the stigma associated with overhealing in TBC? You have a certain percentage of overheals before the raid leader starts tearing a hole in you for overhealing and wasting your own mana. Having fairly tight limits on WOG lessens that percentage.
Now, you can accuse me of living in the past all you want. I got that a lot during Lich King when I predicted the nerfs to large group tanking. I also remember going OOM on Moroes, in a properly geared shaman who got screamed at for using Mana Tide and temporarily dropping Poison Cleansing. And the circle jerk about how "you gotta have heroic gears for Kara and Kara gears for heroics, so get into those BGs and grind some welfare epics!" I'd like to spare up-and-coming healers that frustration.
I hit level 70 1 hour before WoTLK hit stores, so I really don't know too much about TBC. BUT! I did know a lot about Wrath raiding and I'm learning more and more about Cata now. WoG at lower levels can be frustrating to deal with as a healer. Your in a level 50 dungeon and you haven't used a single heal, because your prot paladin tank is doing his full health in WoG heals and 3,000 DPS as the same time. YET! At level 85 in dungeons and raids, a 24K WoG is the least of your worries. Healers can stop cast, and if it so happens that a WoG snipes a heal from you, you probably shouldn't have been healing the tank at that point anyways.
Cheers,
Hat
Post by
dslg604t
Your doing something wrong if your useing the Selfless Healer Talent.
He's using it for 2s, not PvE DPS.
Post by
Grymborn
Not happy with the proposed changes at all. Would be happier if the cooldown was a Ret only changed. Not liking the way it affects Holy and Prot. I guess we'll see how it plays out before I scream account cancel and move to Rift, lol. This is the first time in years that I have really been angry at proposed changes, I can usually at least see their thought process even when I don't agree with it.
Post by
pezz
The cooldown doesn't actually affect holy. Part of the specialization bonus is a removal the CD.
Post by
Inert
On the plus side, we won't have to spec Eternal Glory anymore and can use those 2 points elsewhere.
Instead of taking Eternal Glory you now take Seals of the Pure. I don't see a lot of choices there.
The changes seem nice. Better efficiency for Holy paladins. I was actually wondering the other day why Divine Storm doesn't give Holy Power, nice to see this implemented. I don't understand the Divine Guardian nerf. Guess we'll just have to adapt.
Post by
twiddlefinger
Argh! *activates-holy-spec-and-trolls-away*
Post by
769276
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
blademeld
The current Holy paladin 4-piece raid set bonus now grants 540 Spirit for 6 seconds after casting Holy Shock.
That's a constant 540 spirit for taking 1 Mastery item, not too bad now, hum.
Post by
pezz
The current Holy paladin 4-piece raid set bonus now grants 540 Spirit for 6 seconds after casting Holy Shock.
That's a constant 540 spirit for taking 1 Mastery item, not too bad now, hum.
One mastery item and two crit items (and the shoulders, but damned if you do, damned if you don't when it comes to that slot). Not to mention the bonus doesn't get better until the next tier of gear is unlocked, and I know I'd rather have higher item level haste/spirit pieces than a small spirit bonus with sub-par gear.
Post by
blademeld
If you reforge 540 additional Spirit into haste off of your gear and the ~250 crit rating, you end up with 100+ more haste on the tier gear, and about 300+ crit.
Assuming, like you said, they're the same ilevel.
Post by
pezz
When was the last time a new major content patch came out and the item level was the same?
Post by
blademeld
For some reason I was comparing 359 to 372
:/
Post by
livlivliv
I am sad about WoG... it will definitely limit my survivability as Prot in PvP...
WTB a talent that reduces the CD on it... :(
Post by
yourdadisbald
About the WoG nerf, they should've just slapped a 10 second cooldown on it. That would fix the apparent "exploit" that Retadins were using, by being unable to spam WoG every 3 seconds.
It would also make no difference to Protadins, because it takes at least 10 seconds to garner enough Holy Power.
Post by
hatman555
I edited my second post to become a sort of blue tracker for the important changes in 4.1 as they are explained. Up currently is the new blue about WoG.
We had tanks telling us “I just miss using actual attacks, like Shield of the Righteous. Every time I use SotR it feels like I'm playing wrong.”
I wonder if they actually had tanks telling them this? Where does a tank give feedback to blizz? Honestly to me it just sounds made up. =/
About the WoG nerf, they should've just slapped a 10 second cooldown on it. That would fix the apparent "exploit" that Retadins were using, by being unable to spam WoG every 3 seconds.
It would also make no difference to Protadins, because it takes at least 10 seconds to garner enough Holy Power.
This makes sense. I still hold out hope for something like this to happen.
Cheers,
Hat
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