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White Trash as a Racial Slur
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Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Anecdotal evidence ahoy.
Uh....so is any other "evidence" in this thread. So you can get off your high horse
Words have different definitions depending on the context, but
people
I don't care about that. Living, breathing language? What's that?
"
Way to completely take me out of context. If you're not going to make this a serious discussion, then there's no point.
Post by
Murrdurr
This thread really did ^&*! itself already.
Post by
Cambo
I grew up in South-Auckland, which is known for crime and lower class in New Zealand.
I'm a NZ European, but attended a multi-cultural high-school where 40% were white, 30% dark-skinned and the rest were asian and middle eastern. We all mixed well, and I would call my dark skinned mates 'the N-word' and they would call me the equivalent of 'white pig' in their language. There was lots of racial joking, and only very rarely would anyone ever be rude or make seriously racist remarks. Use of the word "^&*!@#" between friends of any ethnicity is not racist, but used with anger it is.
The portion of the white majority in our country who have little tolerance of other ethnic groups most probably haven't grown up with them, so they lack understanding and empathy. That's the crux of racial grievances here.
Most of us young people who grew up mixing with other races pretty much don't care for racism.
Post by
Deepthought
I hear white people call white people "my n*****s" and black people call black people "n*****" quite often. Those aren't used based on race unless they're completely blind.Dispite the tastelessness as you have just said these aren't insults and so they aren't relevent. My point remains, "white trash" is a classist slur, not a racial one. It is used predominiatly by white people to insult other white people of a percived lower social class.
Post by
Murrdurr
I hear white people call white people "my n*****s" and black people call black people "n*****" quite often. Those aren't used based on race unless they're completely blind.Dispite the tastelessness as you have just said these aren't insults and so they aren't relevent. My point remains, "white trash" is a classist slur, not a racial one. It is used predominiatly by white people to insult other white people of a percived lower social class.
Yet theres plenty of black people (and other races) that use it towards whites as a racial slur just like how a white calling a black a #$%^&* is using it as a racial slur. You cant really argue that either because I went to a very big high school where there were just as many blacks as whites. They deliberately used the term in a racial manner, you may not have heard it used like that in your life but others have and it is indeed used as a racial slur sometimes.
And blacks call other blacks %^&*!@s in the sense that they are just some *!@#$% from the hood, so *!@#$% could also be used in a classist way also
Post by
MyTie
Two questions:
When white trash is used as a racial slur, is it any less derogatory than the N word, when it is used as a racial slur?
If someone takes offense to a slur being used, does that make it wrong to use the slur?
Post by
Murrdurr
When white trash is used as a racial slur, is it any less derogatory than the N word, when it is used as a racial slur?
Sure why not? Why would the word #$%^&* deserve more of a meaning than white trash just because some slaves way back when were called it? Youre still insulting the person on a racial level so yes I think it would have the same meaning.
If someone takes offense to a slur being used, does that make it wrong to use the slur?
Meh, people shouldnt get worked up over words anyways.
Post by
pezz
I'm always amazed how uptight this country is about race.
In the UK, the worst thing about calling someone white trash would be the class connotations. If any race issue was perceived at all (and that's a fairly large if) it definitely would be the secondary issue.
Post by
MyTie
I'm always amazed how uptight this country is about race.
In the UK, the worst thing about calling someone white trash would be the class connotations. If any race issue was perceived at all (and that's a fairly large if) it definitely would be the secondary issue.
What if I were to use the term 'black trash', in reference to Black people? Would that be any more racist than 'white trash' in reference to white people?
Post by
Deepthought
Yet theres plenty of black people (and other races) that use it towards whites as a racial slur just like how a white calling a black a #$%^&* is using it as a racial slur. You cant really argue that either because I went to a very big high school where there were just as many blacks as whites. They deliberately used the term in a racial manner, you may not have heard it used like that in your life but others have and it is indeed used as a racial slur sometimes.
I was going to respond to this, but then, welp;And blacks call other blacks %^&*!@s in the sense that they are just some *!@#$% from the hood, so *!@#$% could also be used in a classist way alsoI don't think you quite understand the concepts being presented here.
When white trash is used as a racial slur, is it any less derogatory than the N word, when it is used as a racial slur?Well slightly, yes, but only becuase of the inherent difference of power present in the exchange (I am assuming between a white person and non-white person?).
If someone takes offense to a slur being used, does that make it wrong to use the slur?Yes and this goes for any slur, classist racist sexist homophobic etc.
Sure why not? Why would the word #$%^&* deserve more of a meaning than white trash just because some slaves way back when were called it? Youre still insulting the person on a racial level so yes I think it would have the same meaning.I have nothing against it, but like if a black dude called me white trash or a cracker you better believe I'll be calling him a @#$%^&.
ITT: Murrdurr "just doesn't get" race relations.
What if I were to use the term 'black trash', in reference to Black people? Would that be any more racist than 'white trash' in reference to white people?As it has been established several times throught this thread, it would depend on entierly how you used the phrase.
Post by
Murrdurr
I'm always amazed how uptight this country is about race.
In the UK, the worst thing about calling someone white trash would be the class connotations. If any race issue was perceived at all (and that's a fairly large if) it definitely would be the secondary issue.
Dont generalize an entire country just from a few softies, theres PLENTY of people who shrug off anything racial or insulting to them.
Deepthought, you said white trash was classist and not racist. I gave a example of black people using the word ^&*!@# in a classist way, have you never been around black people or something? It gets tossed around in that form a lot. It might not be what it actually means but that is the context that they are using it in.
Post by
donnymurph
Didn't you know, it's impossible to discriminate against the majority?
A Chinese man can kick me out of his shop in Chinatown, and that's fine. But if he came to my shop in George Street and I kicked him out, he would go to the media and I would cop a massive public backlash from the Chinese and Caucasian communites alike.
Same goes for the n-word and white trash. Why do you think the n word is censored on these forums and white trash isn't?
BTW I'm not saying that Caucasian people are the majority population of the world, because we aren't. However in America, Australia and pretty much any other country that anyone in this thread is from, Caucasian people certainly are the majority.
Post by
324987
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
Didn't you know, it's impossible to discriminate against the majority?
A Chinese man can kick me out of his shop in Chinatown, and that's fine. But if he came to my shop in George Street and I kicked him out, he would go to the media and I would cop a massive public backlash from the Chinese and Caucasian communites alike.
Same goes for the n-word and white trash. Why do you think the n word is censored on these forums and white trash isn't?
BTW I'm not saying that Caucasian people are the majority population of the world, because we aren't. However in America, Australia and pretty much any other country that anyone in this thread is from, Caucasian people certainly are the majority.
This really is the crux of the issue. I believe everything you just said is correct, but I believe it is unethical, and disgusting.
Post by
Squishalot
Interesting discussion, guys.
@ MyTie: to answer your questions from my view:
Is the term acceptable to use in a pejorative fashion?
No, it's not acceptable to use any term in a pejorative fashion, not limited to the above. The use of (moron, retard, b*tch, wanker, fa99ot, etc.) isn't acceptable either, not in a pejorative fashion. It is best to avoid using them in a non-perjorative fashion as well, if only because most people will confuse your intent.
And no, I don't use them. But that might just be an Australian thing. Ni99er is such a US used term.
When white trash is used as a racial slur, is it any less derogatory than the N word, when it is used as a racial slur?
All racial slurs are equally bad, whether it's white trash, ni99er, 'ching chong' asian or otherwise. The question, however, is whether 'white trash' is actually construed to be a racial slur or a class slur. For some reason, people consider 'white trash' to be a class slur. If that's the generally held view, then for the most part, I would consider white trash to be more acceptable than the N word in common usage, because class slurs are less derogatory than racial slurs. Not that any slurs are to be accepted, mind you.
If someone takes offense to a slur being used, does that make it wrong to use the slur?
I would refer you to Tarol Hunt's recent
blog
post for a response:
The intent with my jokes is to make someone, somewhere smile and I will continue with this personal goal of mine. This may cause me to accidentally offend someone again in the future. If this happens, I ask any offended parties to show as much respect for my right to humour as I believe should be shown toward your own, person pain due to past experiences.
If a slur is used intentionally to offend someone, then it is wrong to use it, because intentionally offending is wrong. If a slur is used and ignorantly hurts someone, then they should be made aware and they can then make a judgement call for themselves as to whether to use it in that context in the future. However, the fact that someone is offended by something is not in and of itself grounds to decree that the something is wrong.
A Chinese man can kick me out of his shop in Chinatown, and that's fine. But if he came to my shop in George Street and I kicked him out, he would go to the media and I would cop a massive public backlash from the Chinese and Caucasian communites alike.
That's absolute BS. If a white Aussie was kicked out of an ethnic shop anywhere, be it Chinatown, Leichardt or Lidcombe, the community would be up in uproar, and you'd get the Bra Boys coming around and kicking shins in.
Post by
MyTie
Squish, that may be the first time you have formed a post during a debate and I cant find anything I disagree with in it.
Post by
Monday
Squish, that may be the first time you have formed a post during a debate and I cant find anything I disagree with in it.
O_o
There should be an achievement for that.
Post by
Squishalot
Squish, that may be the first time you have formed a post during a debate and I cant find anything I disagree with in it.
Wow, that's shocking. Let me go back and edit it :P
Post by
184848
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Aislinge
In the purist sense, it's offensive and illegal - regardless of the Race element.
In Australia, discrimination based on Social Origin is against the law. While it may be prevelant, it certainly isn't called for. Many people in this country actually need to lie about what post code they are from in order to gain a job.
While many may deem it to be socially acceptable remark (much like the common chant in Raids 'Let's rape the sh!t out of this boss', which does nothing in preventing the sexual objectification of women), is it really appropriate or something that we should turn a blind eye too? I'd like to think it's something that people will start addressing.
How quick will that happen? I don't think it'll be that quick.
Edit - I should add that I think while everyone is subject to the normal banter of remarks which are more than likely offensive (myself included), I think it comes down to context and environment. For example, it's common in my area to hear the term 'Nappy Valley', referring to a highly populated area which is popular with young families (and from that, high birth rates, troubled teenagers, crime, low income, stay at home mums etc etc). Is the term derogatory? Well, yes - it's making Social Origin an issue. Does anyone care when you say it? No, it's part of the local vernacular.
Also, it shouldn't mean that the topic is taboo - obviously things do come up and you need to use a descriptor. I would just think that 'it's just not a nice area' is a tad better than 'it's full of White Trash'...
And, you must remember social mores ie, in Australia, call someone Black and instantly they think you're being Racist. In the UK, Black is the norm. Call someone Asian in Australia and that refers to East Asia excluding the Sub-Continent - say it in the UK and it includes all of Asia including India et al.
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