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Suggestions for Tankadin build?
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Post by
TrooperOfDrenden
Hello all,
I haven't played the game in 3 years and I've noticed quite a bit of changes to how prot pallies work and changes to the talent tree. Just installed the trial yesterday to fool around with and I'm thinking I'll be getting a card within the next few days. Decided to figure out the info to my wowhead account and was quite amused to see my old clan name there.
Anyways, to the point: If anyone could link me to a viable lvl 60 Prot pally build that'd be awesome. Thanks!
Post by
719730
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
TrooperOfDrenden
Thanks very much!
Does anyone ever take a point in Divine Guardian? Seems like it'd be good for off-tanking though I'm shooting for being MT most of the time again. Dunno if it fills any niche scenarios other than that though.
I also used to like taking Reckoning just because you get 8 attacks in 4, and you block quite often so it procs a lot, but I can see how a lot of the other abilities outshine it now.
Any other feedback welcome.
Post by
Synectics
Thanks very much!
Does anyone ever take a point in Divine Guardian? Seems like it'd be good for off-tanking though I'm shooting for being MT most of the time again. Dunno if it fills any niche scenarios other than that though.
I also used to like taking Reckoning just because you get 8 attacks in 4, and you block quite often so it procs a lot, but I can see how a lot of the other abilities outshine it now.
Any other feedback welcome.
Divine Guardian is a necessity, no matter if you're MT or OT. It's 20% less damage for the entire group/raid (besides you, but you got plenty of other cooldowns for yourself). There's really no reason to NOT take it. It's saved my group plenty of times while doing pug runs in 80+ instances.
I'm not sure it'll be extremely useful before 80-85, as you'll probably outgear them enough that you can just AOE the snot out of everything from Outland through Northrend.
I'd also suggest keeping Vindication, if not just for the Interrupt effect it adds to your Hammer of Justice. VERY useful, and you should definitely get used to using it on mobs casting nasty stuff.
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Umran
Zakk I disagree with this, there are several instances in which group AoE damage is unavoidable.
Now that heroics are for a short time "progression" content, 20% less healing your group needs could be that bit of mana your healer needs to get you through the fight.
Assuming that a tank is the only who will ever take major damage is probably one of the dumbest comments I have ever read.
Post by
obiwaynekenobi
Assuming that a tank is the only who will ever take major damage is probably one of the dumbest comments I have ever read.
This.
I'm dual-specced Prot now with one spec being optimized for straight damage/threat at the cost of utility, and one specced for raiding/general purpose that takes all the utility stuff.
Divine Guardian can be a lifesaver if used properly. In Wrath, it came in really handy on fights with raidwide damage - I used it on Marrowgar, Festergut, Blood Queen (especially), even Lich King during phase transitions.
Now I'm going slowly through Cataclysm so I have only ran BRC, and only ran it once at that, but even in a dungeon like that I saw its uses on the first boss (just as a stopgap in case somebody was slow running away from that AOE he does) and on the third boss (nothing BUT party-wide damage, pretty much).
Saying that it's useless because the tank should be the only one getting hit is, to be honest, a ridiculously ignorant thing to say. A good tank keeps anything at his disposal that could make his job (i.e. making sure your allies don't die) easier. A bad tank says "They shouldn't be getting hit at all" and ignores useful talents.
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Raleandris
4200 posts and still an ignorant troll Zakkhar? Just because you've never done content where raid/party cooldowns were used to great effect does not make the ability useless. Sure, you can do heroic encounters without Divine Guardian, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't use it if you can. It's an amazing ability for progression and absolutely cannot be skipped. Calling a group bad because Divine Guardian was used though? Ignorant and assinine.
Edit: Is anyone else sad that Holy Paladin can no longer use DG? I know I was.
Post by
Synectics
Divine Guardian is a necessity, no matter if you're MT or OT. It's 20% less damage for the entire group/raid (besides you, but you got plenty of other cooldowns for yourself). There's really no reason to NOT take it.
There is one. Being a good tank and only one taking major damage.
It's saved my group plenty of times while doing pug runs in 80+ instances.
Sounds like you are either bad yourself or run with baddies.
Have you done the 80+ dungeons yet? There are plenty of AOE phases that are completely unavoidable for the group, and they're MEANT to be this way. It's meant to put stress on the healer. What's so wrong about spending one talent point and being a situationally aware tank who knows how to help keep the party alive? I thought that was our goal -- keeping the party alive. :P I think proper use of a 6 second duration buff is the mark of a great tank -- not a bad one.
This would be like saying a Holy Paladin using Aura Mastery is a bad healer. I'm sorry, but doubling Resistance Aura during an AOE phase can be pretty helpful. Even if it's not a HUGE help, it's still some -- and every little bit can count.
Assuming the encounter needs 20% damage reduction for 6 seconds talent to be managable (life saver) is like assuming the encounter is tweaked for paladin tanks specced into divine guardian.
Obviously no encounter is balanced around NEEDING that 20%. But it's definitely helpful. What's so wrong about that?
No encounter is balanced around NEEDING to pop all of our tanking cooldowns. But why wouldn't you? Is there really a reason to not use Divine Protection, Guardian of Ancient Kings, and Ardent Defender? What makes a tank who uses these and helps make the encounter easier a BAD tank? Do we really need to be so elitist that using our abilities makes us bad?
EDIT:
Sounds like you are either bad yourself
or run with baddies
.
It's saved my group plenty of times while
doing pug runs in 80+ instances.
Post by
pezz
Just ignore the guy who didn't clearly buy Cata, I think.
Post by
blademeld
Hmm, ignoring all the nonsense about if there is serious AoE damage in 5 mans or not (there will always be idiots standing in the fire btw)
Guarded by the Light isn't as strong as it was before, I'd recommend taking 1/2 for a threat build, you can allocate that point to DG, or even the point in Sacred Duty (lol)
With the Hallowed Ground, I would take it just to make Consecration feasible when you do want to use it, that once or twice.
Otherwise, Reckoning is a good choice.
I always prefer Eternal Glory over Seals of the Pure... because... seals...
I haz cata but no subscription, lulz.
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
pezz
I don't remember saying any of those...
Post by
atomicwolf22
I don't remember saying any of those...
Lol he got his posters missed up. Synectics should have been the one that he quoted.
Post by
Synectics
Why so elitist?
For me, the party surviving is the most important part of pulls and bosses. You know why? Not surviving means no loot. No loot means a ghost run back to the instance. And that's lost time. I don't care if the wipe was because a DPS stood in the fire -- it's still a wipe. I can either hold my chin high and snidely say, "Wasn't my fault." Or I can do everything in my power to help us survive the pull, even if it means turning the dragon so they aren't standing in front of it anymore, even though they're the one who moved to that spot in the first place.
I would MUCH rather save someone's ass and make it through the pull, and then brag about how awesome I am that I can both cover my responsibility and save a newer player, than have one or more people on a pull die. I pride myself on my groups living through an entire instance. Part of this is me holding aggro and not dying. Another part is helping newer players, or players who haven't seen an encounter, and explaining mechanics so that we can get through it
AS A GROUP
.
Since you haven't done the new instances, I understand you may not have a scope on how much tougher regular dungeons have gotten -- especially when you factor in how many players haven't seen them yet. You can do your job perfectly, but if DPS die, you'll probably not survive a pull anymore because a healer WILL go OOM. If a healer dies, it's very unlikely even a DPS with heals will be able to keep a tank up. If a tank dies, fugetaboutit.
And where are you putting that one single point from Divine Guardian that's so much more important at level 85? I find my build to be just fine with a point "wasted" there. /shrug.
tl;dr Being stubborn and right can also mean being dead. Being helpful can mean more loot faster. We're all noobs to Cata.
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
pezz
I highly doubt spending one point on DG and spending on GCD on using it is going to noticeably inhibit your ability to fulfill your function as a tank. You're over dramatizing the possible consequences of spending one little talent point and one little GCD to possibly help someone a little bit with their role.
Aside from which, that's pretty much what paladins are all about. Hell, when you could pretty much just bind CS to mousewheel up and DS to mousewheel down and do like 90% of Ret's possible DPS, the
only
thing concerning spell usage that separated a good player from a great one was their understanding and usage of hand spells and Divine Guardian or Aura Mastery, if they took that in their spec. We're a class
designed
to use those kinds of CDs.
Also, your claim that using CDs to help people breeds a new generation of idiots is pretty specious. As holy running instances now, I'm using hand spells, healing CDs, and Aura Mastery (very similar to the spell in question) to save my Bane of the Fallen King guild mates all the time. You really don't have to be an idiot to need a little help with survivability once in a while.
Now I do realize that Bane is not the most impressive title I could have possibly brought up, but I still stand by my claim that there aren't a lot of 'bad idiots' with it who didn't pay for it. But I do bet there are a lot of people with it who appreciate a short-term free Barkskin from somebody else every once in a while.
Post by
Synectics
Bringing the loot argument shows exactly we are different players. I dont run for loot. I wouldnt mind if there was zero loot in the instances. Loot isnt the goal. Loot is just a tool to achieve the goal.
I love the new dungeons, and have a LOT of fun running them. But nonetheless, I'm there with the goal of eventually doing raids. And to get to raids, you need the gear. It's not that I want new shiny toys to look at -- I want to do raids, and like you said, dungeon loot is a tool to achieve the goal.
And really, who likes dying repeatedly? I love to wipe when learning a fight, and having the satisfaction of figuring out a mechanic on my own. But dying repeatedly is no fun. If it takes a well-timed cooldown to help the healer from going OOM or keep a lower geared DPS from dying in an AOE phase, why wouldn't you use it?
And i wont spec to cover for such player mistakes, sure if it lets me survive - its part of my plan, its part of tank role i can spec to this, but not at the expense of my own fun.
It's one point -- doesn't break your tanking spec to have it. I'm pretty sure a handful of our points are flavor anyway.
I just don't see where helping the group survive ruins your fun -- unless you like watching bad players die. Which is fine, I understand that, and have let DPS who run forward and pull die more than once. But when it comes to doing this content, I'd rather get through it as a group and have everyone live than have someone die and take a chance of a wipe.
I won't argue that Divine Guardian is such a life-saver -- it IS only 20%. But that could potentially save a player, or at the least, make it easier for the group, and I just don't see what's wrong with being nice once in a while. :P
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