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Why so much hate towards the Dark Lady?
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Post by
Skreeran
It's brilliant, but cruel, and people don't like cruelty. Yes, some of the most successful empires in the world have been brutally cruel (Genghis Khan, I'm looking at you), but this is Warcraft, and as a stylized universe, people have a not-unreasonable expectation for the good guys to be successful by using honorable tactics.
Post by
306612
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Post by
Skreeran
My point is, people used to the idea of "honorable" combat (which doesn't really exist in real life--at least, not to the extent that it is depicted in fiction), who sympathize with the honorable Orcs and Tauren, and the fair and just Humans, Draenei, and Dwarves are rather shocked by the "win at all costs" attitude that the Forsaken take. It's more realistic, but in today's society (where we don't have to be afraid of rampaging hordes of mongols), honorable combat is a comfortable and pleasant notion that worms it's way into a geat deal of fiction. In most stories, good guys fight honorably, bad guys use cheap shots and unfair attacks. This is unrealistic, but it's what many people have come to expect. And that's why tactics employed by the opportunistic and dirty-fighting Forsaken are considered villainous.
Now, I'm not complaining. I like the orcs, and I like the humans, and I like it best when they're acting like good, righteous people. Warcraft is several steps away from "realistic" and I'm fine with that. I'm just explaining why people consider the Forsaken to be heinous and despicable when real combat is even dirtier, more viscious, and unfair.
Post by
367590
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Post by
229054
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Post by
Rankkor
I liked her a lot during W3, but in WoW I just hate her. Way too much bad character development.
more like character derailment :P
Post by
229054
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306612
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229054
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306612
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229054
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Post by
195220
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Post by
Skreeran
Guys, there are some things that were missing.
#1. The forsaken cant... ahem... reproduce. unlike all the other races, all that broke free from the lich king are all there are. and unlike players, forsaken killed in battle stay dead for the most part. between forsaken going back to the lich king, forsaken joining the revolt against sylvanas and the combined losses between fighting the lich king and the alliance in northrend.
They are dieing out.... Now the lich kings gone, now that vengence is done, Sylvanas is trying to build a nation<from what i can see> and you cant do that with 10 people. In addition i dont see them being very useful in Garroshes horde if they dont have the forces to fight with.
#2. Both sides have their own forsaken,<AKA Amoral and/or apathic>. The horde has the Forsaken and the Blood elves while the Alliance has the night elves and the gnomes.<no, the night elves are not noble, other then protecting themselves and their forest, they will do anything they can, damn who else is effected>.
#3. Yea, all through vanilla wow we were sending up the bomb. We knew this, everyone that actualy read the quest dialogue knew this. The bomb was supposed to kill the scourge, and im sure alot of the researches and Sylvanas had that thought in mind. it isnt really till you deal with the plague bringers and Putressess'es direct underlings that the idea of a Dooms day plague pops up.#1: It's not just about military might, it's about legacy. As long as the Forsaken cannot reproduce, they are doomed to die out as a culture. That is very depressing to them, and it's part of why some of them lash out against the living. By giving them a means to procreate, Sylvanas can breathe new "life" into their culture.
#2. I do not really see your point here. Are you saying that both sides have morally questionable elements? If so, that is true (though I don't see why you included the gnomes). The Night Elves
are
were probably the most morally questionable members of the Alliance, though recent developments (Shatterspear massacre aside) have kind of whitewashed them, compared to the erm... blackwashing that the Forsaken have apparently gotten.
#3. Well, it was meant to kill both undead and living. Sylvanas specifically intended to use it on the Scourge and the humans, probably the Scarlet Crusade specifically.
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306612
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229054
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Post by
taurenmoo812
My own stint on Sylvanas. Ok, I've never been a real forsaken fan, I never liked there dark, twisted method of things and how it conflicted with the hordes sense of honor, But all this time I left it be and accepted the forsaken, and Sylvanas were simply seeking revenge for there misrable state of being. No one knew better then they what the lich king inflicted upon them, so they were in the right to there revenge against him, and perhaps just as much right to want to strike against the alliance for pushing them away like monsters.
However, in cataclysm, there isn't the lich king to fall back on. Given, there are a race still trying to survive, but how they go about this now is no better then the scourge. And Sylvanas now having nobody to aim her grief at for her poor state, orders acts that reflect the kind of horrors we saw in icecrown.
Now that her motivation is dead and buried, she's starting to behave just like the thing she sort revenge against all these years, and to me, thats even worse on top of all the other crap happening in the horde right now. If it was questionable before, its outright monsterous here. And having tyrent von hellscream showing the worst of the horde on kalimdor, you got two leaders making the horde look the worse for it.
Still, the irony is, I would feel more comfortable doing any quest sylvanas sends me to do then anything Garrosh does. I don't hate her, but she is making it as bad as garrosh now to believe in what the horde use to be about.
Post by
367590
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Post by
Adamsm
There is one key difference between the Lich King's raising the dead and Sylvanas doing it. Her undead have their own free will and as far as I can tell she does not force anyone to follow her.
A newly risen could just as easily not follow Sylvanas and decide to follow their own path in un-life.
And then be killed for not following the new Lich Queen heh.
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355559
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306612
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