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Do we get our money's worth from WoW?
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Post by
Agoraphobic
TL:DR - Blizzard is being pretty lazy with the game for the money they make from it.
+1
Post by
Azrile
Ok.. so let me get this straight.
Because a company has done nearly everything else and buried the competition, they should then 'stop doing it their way' and start completely listening to the players.
Get a clue, everyone has a million things they would like added to WOW.. so because WOW is successful, they should be forced to implement everything we want?
A lot of players do NOT want certain things, so just because it is on your laundry list does not mean Blizzard is lazy for not adding it. For instance, I saw someone mention armor dyes. Have you ever played UO? they have armor dyes, and you cannot enter a city without having to deal with a large number of players that look like clown vomit. There is a reason the devs haven't added armor dyes (they are smarter than the average player).
WOW is successful because the devs have created by far the best MMORPG out there.. the average player with his 'requests' would completely ruin the game. This entire thread, starting with the OP wanting the gov't to force Blizzard to reduce the price and not ever fire employees show just how shallow thinking can be. You need to look past the first 'easy' layer of a problem and contemplate what will happen.
One of my favorite lines from Jurrasic Park. " We were so busy asking if we could do it, that we never asked if we should do it".
Post by
storyr
lol, not to get down on people's opinions here. But I bet people who think the game is broken have never done endgame content (no normal LK or post 3.0 KJ don't count) or gotten 2200+ in arena.
Post by
Azrile
Let me tackle another idiotic, yet often asked for thing.
'classic' servers.
Does this mean no BE and Dranai?
Does this mean no shamen for alliance and pallys for horde?
Does this mean riding skills go back to the way they were?
How about talent trees? Do we go back to the original ones we had before BC launched? (wand specialization for priests, shield specilization for shamen?)
How about itemization.. back then there was no way a feral or balance druid could raid, all the tier sets were for healing only
How about duel specs? surely we cant' have them
How about JC and glyphs?
How about the honor grind system from back then? surely we don't want that back.
There are a million questions like that, and for each question, you will divide the people who would be happy. In the end, Nobody would be happy unless Blizzard created 4000 'classic' servers each with the changes they wanted.
There is no 'classic' server.. there is only 'your' idea of a classic server, which would be different than probably 95% of the other people who want to play on a classic server.
Again, look past the 'easy' part and try to think things through completely.
Post by
storyr
http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=169966
go read that thread to fully understand the way this game has changed for the better. People who want classic servers are idiots.
Post by
Eldente
I'll just drop my two cents here,
I haven't been playing WoW for that long, and now I pretty much don't because I moved to study and am in fact homeless for the moment. I spent 12-14$ (depending on the Latvian Lat to US Dollar exchange rate) every month on this game, and never did I regret any of those payments. The content, though sometimes repetitive, is so broad that is can almost never get old. Heck, I even had fun wiping in a PuG ToTC25 on Twin Val'kyr, two months after ICC H25 has been completed for the first time - just because it has its own, special, feeling. In WoW, you feel you're part of something, and I never lost that subconscious thought.
I've been playing some other MMOs as well, those that claimed to be free, with a good possibility to achieve heights without cash sinks. Well, it they all turned out to be even worse in terms of cost, because you would need to spend 15$ per WEEK for "premium access" or some such thing, otherwise - spend a month to ding, for example, 42 out of 50 levels, and a year more to level skill points to the appropriate value, so that you can level-up once more. Another scenario is levelling to maximum level without donating cash, and then failing pitifully in PvP because someone who paid has 10x your stats. Furthermore, the quality of the content was undoubtedly much, much lower than @ Blizzard.
IMO, Blizzard deserves every earned cent. At least from myself.
Post by
Eccentrica
I wonder how many people bothered to go and read Activision's Financial Statements from 2009; I did.
Blizzard is a division of Activision Blizzard. For the year ended 31 Dec 2009, they posted total revenues of $4,279,000,000 and total expenses of $4,305,000,000, for a total operating
loss
of $26,000,000. After adjustments for taxes, each shareholder earned a whopping 9 cents per share.
Just in case you are interested in reading
financials
.
Post by
storyr
I wonder how many people bothered to go and read Activision's Financial Statements from 2009; I did.
Blizzard is a division of Activision Blizzard. For the year ended 31 Dec 2009, they posted total revenues of $4,279,000,000 and total expenses of $4,305,000,000, for a total operating
loss
of $26,000,000.
Just in case you are interested in reading
financials
.
lol, owned.
Post by
367590
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Tya1
Eh no...that does not piss me off.
It tells me that Blizzard made a stupid decision by grouping up with Activision, but that is another matter.
What you are saying is in essence the following:
You like to wear mens boxershort Charlie by company Hallula, which is the absolutely best seller of the company.
Of course company Hallula has a WHOLE range of other products, like briefs, tighties, but also womens underwears and childrens underwear.
You are now complaining that you could get Charlie cheaper, or sown with goldwire if Hallula would stop producing those other ridicilous products, and only put every coin they earn into Charlie. Does that sound like a solid businessplan, that is focused on the future and survavibility?
Not really eh? You pay the company and they hope by producing other goods that they will create another bestseller. That is how companies work, and that is their good right.
And again, stop making up those silly numbers and believing in them. The money Blizzard EARNS by this game is put back in so many stuff they have to pay for, forget it that they are making that much PROFIT.
Post by
Kailhun
A simple question. Do you think the content provided per dollar spent on WoW is more, less, or roughly same as content provided by other games?
Wow is one of the cheapest pastimes there is. I pay € 10.99 a month. I play
too much
15-20 hours a week.
A book costs more, but I spend less time reading it.
Every now and then you can buy expansions for a mere € 34.99. But other expansions (added content also known as patches) is completely free.
Put simply, It cost's Blizzard roughly $0.50 cents to make this product and they charge you $15. That's a 2,900% mark up. That's a 96% profit margin. That is insane.
I'm not sure your calculations are correct, but even with a 96% profit margin the per hour cost is very low. Unless you don't play, of course. Paying € 10.99 for something you don't use, is expensive.
Post by
Kailhun
Just to add something to this.
This is one place your $15 is going
So? Who cares? Wish I made that kind of money. At least his company makes a game approx. 12 million people like. Plenty of others make insane amounts of money with less to show for it or even while effing things up.
Post by
Wondroustremor
I haven't read all seven pages of this, but what I've seen is an interesting debate. I see it as a difference of viewpoint - the people who compare the cost to them against another luxury item and say that the value is worth it, and the people that look at the overall company profits versus output and say that Blizzard isn't doing enough for the money they get.
I personally don't care how much profit Blizzard gets in the end- and I think people often forget that 11 million subscribers are not all playing $15 a month, depending on where they are. I look at the value of the game this way: with my $15, I can watch two movies- once. I can buy a discount DVD or two, and watch them a couple of times. I can buy a couple of magazines, that I'll read once or twice. I can buy one good book that might keep me occupied for a couple of weeks if I read a few pages a day. Or, I can play an MMO that is available most of the time, twenty-four hours a day, every day of the month except Tuesdays.
I enjoy the game. I think more goes on behind the scenes than people realise, and I also think that people generally fail to realise that the very reason that WoW has been developed as much as it has is because it is popular and profitable. Blizzard, as much as it produces great games, is still a company that exists to make profit- even more so since it became Activizzard. If WoW wasn't making such wondrous profits, the budget would be cut on a lot of things- including, I am certain, the developers and creative geniuses that help keep the game changing. And while there's not something new and sparkly every day, people complain when it doesn't change enough to suit them- and then people change when Blizzard
does
make changes.
Personally, I think that the people who feel that there is little value to the game just like to complain.
Post by
331902
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
692108
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Eccentrica
I wonder how many people bothered to go and read Activision's Financial Statements from 2009; I did.
Blizzard is a division of Activision Blizzard. For the year ended 31 Dec 2009, they posted total revenues of $4,279,000,000 and total expenses of $4,305,000,000, for a total operating
loss
of $26,000,000. After adjustments for taxes, each shareholder earned a whopping 9 cents per share.
Just in case you are interested in reading
financials
.
Yup, Activision made a lot of bad decisions last year, like flooding the market with Guitar Heros, essentially having to compete with themselves for sales while simultaneously having to share the market with the now well established Rock Band. Good thing they had Blizzard (and more specifically WoW) sucking in so much cash, otherwise that $26 million loss would have been much worse.
Net Revenues Subscription, licensing, and other revenues (aka WoW) ~ $1.2 billion.
Cost of sales—massively multi-player online role-playing game ("MMORPG") (aka WoW) ~$200 million
Net profit of WoW ~$1 billion.
Cool story bro, but ultimately you've just proven that Blizz (and more specifically WoW) makes so much money that they can cover for the bad decisions of Activision.
That's right folks, all the money you pump into WoW doesn't go to give you more WoW content. It goes to making Guitar Hero: Generic Band #213 and Barbie goes Golfing. If that doesn't piss you off I don't know what will.
Your knowledge of business is pitiful. As long as Activision has segments which are losing the shareholders money, they will NOT do anything to reduce the revenue from segments which are making money, nor will they increase expenses in those segments.
Also, expenses for operating WoW are greater than mere Cost of Sales. A large chunk of the Administrative Expenses, Product Development Expenses and Sales and Marketing Expenses will be included in the true cost of the segment.
(Edit: I could go on to explain the concept of shareholders expectations of positive earnings and the effects of increasing share value on the long term viability of segments, but I think I just used to many big words for you to comprehend, so I won't)
Take your soapbox elsewhere, or learn to use facts to support your arguments, not just selective snippets of fact.
If you want to try to discuss business and finance with a Commerce major, you'd better go put your bigboy pants on. If you don't feel you are getting value for your 2 cents an hour ($15 x 12 months) / (365 days x 24 hours/day), please feel free to cancel your subscription.; we won't miss you.
kthnxbai
Post by
367590
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Eccentrica
Do you have any concept of how much computer equipment is utilized to develop and run WoW, or how much it costs to operate it? The thought of their utility bills alone is enough to cringe at, let alone annual depreciation.
As I said earlier, you haven't a shred of a clue of what you are talking about. Go away.
Post by
367590
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
xaratherus
I highly doubt a "large chunk", more like a small peace. Activision and Blizz both work on a lot of other games. On top of that those games will be highly profitable upon release. Will any of that money get pumped back into WoW? Not likely.
Uh, no. Based on past numbers, they were
not
profitable. WoW was - the rest of Activision's business segments
lost
money.
The only place from which they can "pump money" is from WoW's own proceeds.
Eccentrica has it spot-on. Blizzard is a division of Activision; it is no longer a separate entity, but part of a whole. As long as the whole is posting a loss, it will not reduce net profit from its one successful division*. That's not how business works.
*Unless their market analysis shows that an increase in expenditure toward the successful division will, in the long term, increase its profit margin and thereby help the company as a whole. That would likely require an order-of-magnitude increase in net profit before they would even consider it, and if they weren't fairly certain of getting that increase, it simply would not happen.
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