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The The Shattering: Prelude to Cataclysm Discussion Thread (Spoilers Abound)
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Post by
Skreeran
Alright, I'm not going to write a full review of the book. Wow.com did that already. If you want a review, go read that.
Instead, I took notes as I read the book, and I want to make a few comments. In this thread, you can as well, along with any other discussion of the book. Please keep it all here in this one thread (besides the General Discussion thread), so we don't have a million threads floating around as everyone gets their copy.
Also, it's worth noting that I'm not planning on elaborating and explaining the full context of every single one of my points, so if you haven't read the book (and unfortunately, I imagine that very few of you have as of yet), you might feel a little lost, and for that I'm sorry.
Okay, now onto my points:
Saurfang
: It seems we know where he's gone off to. I was getting a little worried as beta build after beta build, Saurfang was nowhere to be found. There were even
rumours
that he was hanging up his axe for good. However, he's decided to stay on Northrend and tend to the garrison. I imagine that he's been left there to tie Northrend into the Cataclsym expansion (so new players don't have Garrosh as Warchief throughout the leveling experience, and then suddenly have him as a reg'lar ol' general). As such, he'll probably get some new dialogue and quests will be retooled for him. He probably won't get much more action, but that's cool. He had a good run. And after what happened to his son, I don't blame him if he's had his fill of fighting.
Varian's Personality
: It seems Adams was correct in his hunch that Varian's reconstitution as a single man was imperfect, and it's explicitly clear that he is known to switch between his Varian and Lo'gosh personas. Lo'gosh can also be kind of an arsehole. Incidentally, Golden made a mistake in remarking that
Lo'gosh
was a Taur-ahe word, rather than an orc one. It's a small mistake, and I'll happily forgive her for it, as the rest of the book was fantastic.
The Nightmare War
: It's funny. Golden seems to be the only one to recognize that the War Against the Nightmare (as chronicled in
Stormrage
) actually happened. It's never been mentioned in the game or the comics, but Golden pays tribute to Knaak's book (even though I didn't enjoy Stormrage) in a seamless manner.
Hearthstone
: Hey! There's another hearthstone in this book. Stormrage had been the first canonical source to acknowledge their existence, and previously they had been believed to be non-canon. However, The Shattering follows in Stormrage's footsteps and uses a hearthstone as a plot device, though with more care and tact than the latter, in my (not-so)humble opinion.
Perspective
: Once again, Golden shows that she is a master (mistress?) of changing perspective, and is able to seamlessly switch between viewpoints, and not just obvious viewpoints like the Horde and the Alliance, but subtle changed in perspective, like the difference in thought processes between Jaina, Varian, and Anduin. Masterfully she is able to switch from one characters thoughts to another while keeping them understandable and smooth.
Garrosh's Warchiefdom
: Golden makes an excellent case for Garrosh's being left in charge, and I found myself unable to disagree with Thrall's sequence of logic. Thrall's decision didn't seem impulsive at all, but rather well-considered, and it was with begrudging resignation that he determined that leaving Garrosh in control of the Horde was the only viable option. Incidentally, Golden apparently made a mistake in calling Garrosh "younger" a few times. Again, forgivable. I think we can all agree that Garrosh certainly acts younger than Thrall... :P
Cairne's Concern
: Cairne makes his disagreement with Thrall's decision as cleverly and eloquently as the best of us New Horde supporters who have spoken out against Garrosh. Truly, Taurenmoo would be proud... :P
Mak'gora
: The duel between Garrosh and Cairne was just plain awesome. It was a bummer to see Cairne die, but the duel was impressive, and there was a painting in the back of the book illustrating the duel that is absoultely bloody epic. (If I can find it, I'll link it here.)
Baine
: I really like Baine. I
really
like Baine. He's my favorite rising Horde star since Dranosh Saurfang. He's everything good about Garrosh (strong, honorable, charismatic), but with the wisdom and reservations of Thrall and Cairne. I was worried that all the good, wise heroes of the Horde were growing old and being slowly but inexorably replaced by young hot-blooded fellows. Well, Baine is my hope. He's even friends with Anduin! :D
Anduin
: Speaking of Anduin, he's really fricking awesome as well. He's going to make a great leader someday, and already he shows excellent skill in the arts of diplomacy, leadership, and helping others. His father would be so lost without him. He's even better at keeping his dad in control than Jaina. (That's not to insult Varian, but if it weren't for Anduin, there's a great many mistakes that Varian might have made).
Garrosh, Again
: Garrosh has a way with wordd if nothing else. I couldn't help but grin after reading his letter to Magatha. As you know, it's he's already famous for some other awesome quotations. (GET. OFF. MY. SHIP.)
Thrall
: Well, it's official, Thrall shipping is dead forever. (Well, not forever. The fandumb has never let canonicity get in the way of their shipping). Thrall has taken a mate. It's hard to tell, of course, since orcs don't seem to have any sort of formal ritual by which to declare that they've taken a mate, but it's pretty clear. While I was a Thrall/Jaina shipper myself, I always knew that it wouldn't actually happen. At least not while Thrall was Warchief. It was simply too dangerous of a politcal move. Incidentally, Thrall's not Warchief anymore. He's decided to give up that life and focus on Aggra and Shamanhood. The explanation given was airtight, if still sad. And Thrall's almost certainly not coming back (as that would detract from the solemnity of ritually removing his armor and choosing to give up the mantle of Warchief), but Golden did leave some room for an improbable return, as Thrall said that he was ". . . not the Warchief . . . Not for some time anyway." So maybe, but probably not.
Final Point
: Gazlowe always makes me laugh.
So...
Discuss the book. Ask for elaboration on my comments. Whatever. Just keep it in this thread please. We don't want to spoil it for people who haven't read the book.
Post by
286545
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Post by
Skreeran
You said that Jaina was one of the perspectives, what does she do in the book?She's a very prominent figure in the book, and I can't really summarize everything she does... Basically, she both acts as a motherly figure toward Anduin, while also helping the Horde with a few problems and dealing with the chaotic weather (basically a hurricane, in Theramore's case) that occurs before the Cataclysm. She's an excellent character, and has obviously grown a lot since the Arthas book.
Post by
292559
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Post by
GVHB
I think the letter Skree talks about is this one:
Unto Elder Crone Magatha of the Grimtotem,
Acting Warchief of the Horde, Garrosh Hellscream
Sends his most sincere wishes for a slow and painful death.
Also, It seems that the Twilight are indirectly responsible for Cairne's death. Another reason to hate them.
Post by
Skreeran
I think the letter Skree talks about is this one:
Unto Elder Crone Magatha of the Grimtotem,
Acting Warchief of the Horde, Garrosh Hellscream
Sends his most sincere wishes for a slow and painful death.
Also, It seems that the Twilight are indirectly responsible for Cairne's death. Another reason to hate them.Indirectly, though Magatha and Garrosh were directly responsible.
And yeah, that's the letter I'm talking about:
Here it is in full:
Unto Elder Crone Magatha of the Grimtotem,
Acting Warchief of the Horde, Garrosh Hellscream,
Sends his most sincere wishes for a slow and painful death.
It has come to my attention that you have deprived me of a rightful kill. Cairne Bloodhoof was a hero of the Horde, and an honorable member of a usually honorable race. It is with disgust and anger that I discover you have caused me to bring about his death through accidental treachery.
Such tactics may work well for your renegade, honorless tribe and Alliance scum, but I despise them. It was my wish to fight Cairne fairly, and win or lose by my own skill or lack of it. Now I shall never know, and they cry of traitor will dog my steps until such time as I can sport your head on a pike and point to you as the real traitor.
So . . . no. I will not be sending any truehearted orcs to fight alongside your treacherous, belly-crawling tribe. Your victory or your defeat is in the hands of your Earth Mother now. Either way, I look forward to hearing of your demise.
You are on your own, Magatha, as friendless and disliked as you have ever been. Perhaps more. Enjoy your loneliness.
Post by
taurenmoo812
I got to say... I'm amazed, and a little disappointed, in how both the book aired the chance of Thrall returning to us, and that you gave into to believeing this completely now skree.
You know I still hold out some hope, you just gave up on believeing he would. The hordes gone to #$%^ in cataclysm, Garrosh is responsble for cairnes death, and unless something remarkable happens, your suggesting the man who made the horde what it is would never return?
This book series is a 3 parter isn't it? I seem to recall that was mentioned. Perhaps instead of dashing any hope of the horde regaining what it was, your wait for more to tell?
Post by
Adamsm
Prelude to the Cataclysm; it's merely Arthas with another name; just one book.
Post by
GVHB
WoWWiki list The Shattering as part of the Cataclysm trilogy. It has no source though so it might not be a trilogy.
Post by
Skreeran
I got to say... I'm amazed, and a little disappointed, in how both the book aired the chance of Thrall returning to us, and that you gave into to believeing this completely now skree.
You know I still hold out some hope, you just gave up on believeing he would. The hordes gone to #$%^ in cataclysm, Garrosh is responsble for cairnes death, and unless something remarkable happens, your suggesting the man who made the horde what it is would never return?Well, he won't. Adams and I both believed he would, but he's not going to, and we (at least
I
, I'll let Adams speak for himself) are man enough to know when we're beat, and to change our stance.
I take it you haven't read the book yet? If that's the case, I'll forgive you your continued harbouring of the hope that he'll return. Having read the book, I can most assuredly say that he will not. He went through a great deal of soul-searching, trying to determine a solution for his inner conflict, between what he knew was right and what was best for practical purposes. I hope you'll forgive me for spoiling a little bit when I say that there is a specific incident where some Night Elves are brutally murdered, apparently by the Horde. When the Alliance demands an apology for the attack, and for the particular manner in which it was committed. Thrall confides in Jaina that he is disgusted in the murders, but that he can only issue the most spare of apologies to the Alliance in order to keep the Horde's favor. It's a major conflict for Thrall, because he wants to do what is right, but he can't because of his position.
Throughout the book, this conflict grows and manifests itself in other ways, but he keeps the mantle of Warchief. It is not until the final chapter of the book, in the presence of Cairne's pyre, that he finally realizes what he has to do, and slowly removes his armor and replaces it with the robes that Aggra gave him.
Thrall's whole development in the book was leading to that moment, when he decides to leave the political world behind in favor of the purer and more wholesome task of rebuilding the Horde and building a new family.
It would run completely counter to the whole plot of the book for him just to come back into that conflict between Shaman and Warchief.
He had a
great
run as Warchief, but he's had enough, and he's needed in other places. I settled for Varok Saurfang retiring to Northrend to wrestle with his personal ghosts alone rather than fighting enemies on the battlefield, and I've accepted that Thrall has earned his chance to live his own life now, free from the complicated and exhausting world of politics.
WoWWiki list The Shattering as part of the Cataclysm trilogy. It has no source though so it might not be a trilogy.The source, I believe, is the jacket of the Arthas book, which stated that Golden was working on a Warcraft trilogy.
Post by
taurenmoo812
you know I gotta say, them stearing the story in this way, that Thrall will leave behind everything he did for his people, leaving garrosh to lead it, and not returning... its this kind of development that makes me consider cancelling my subscription and leaving wow altogether.
Wow gives me only two choice. play the alliance, or the horde. I won't play the alliance again, because there story never intrested me after I began to read the horde. And for the horde I kept at liking what it was well Thrall lead it and it was kept in check.
Now, if what you say it right, this is Garrosh's horde now, and without a third option, something I'll regret even playing part to.
Thrall promised vol'jin, he would return. maybe theres a chance he will return to the horde, but just not as a warchief.
It also makes no sense, really, no dam sense. He removes the armor, and thats it? The armor is meant to be a symbol of the hordes freedom, along with the doomhammer, and he leaves it for this?
What next, is he just gonna stay neutral too? Leaving the horde behind to just fester and go off and raise a family? I know Golden has a way of making us love the characters she writes.. but christ.. are they turning Thrall into another Tirion or what?
its just bullcrap. I knew cataclysm would be hard hitting, but I just think i'm gonna regret playing it.
Post by
Skreeran
Please withhold your judgment until you read the book, dude. It's the best Warcraft book I've read so far. Please stop making all these judgments about the events of the book without seeing all the context surrounding them. I used to hate Garrosh too, and I hated that Garrosh killed Cairne, and I hated that Thrall was leaving, and I thought it was a stupid decision that had a very poor excuse. But after reading this book, I've found that I have a new appreciation for Thrall's decisions, and that Garrosh, while pig-headed and hasty, is still honorable and honest. I particularly liked the part of the book where Garrosh meets Baine for the first time after Cairne's death and Baine forgives him, leaving Garrosh stunned. Even in that scene, Garrosh still lacks a bit of perspective, but Baine humbles him with words, and Garrosh gains new respect for the Tauren and Baine in particular.
Post by
taurenmoo812
I don't care skree. Call me ignorent if you want, but theres nothing in the way the stories going that makes me see anything good on the horizon. You've already hammered all the plot for me, so why should I look at it any other way?
I've said it countless times. The horde meant something to me, because with the horde I finally found a genre where the orcs weren't just some lord of the rings evil thug rip offs. I read though from rise of the horde right up to now, and for me, only when Thrall lead the horde did I finally think 'yes, this is it'.
I don't feel any of that reading this now, looking at the text overhead for many of the orcs in cata, looking at there phrase for garrosh and there want for warmongering, just like the old horde.
Thrall didn't just lead the horde, he wasn't just some random orc leader to say 'he had a good run', he actully made me think yeah, I like the horde because of how they are here. so without him as that example, nothings gonna be the same with it.
And now, let me get this right.. Golden is making it that Thrall is disgusted with his own people, that despite what happened with those night elves being slaughtered, he just relented and thought his people did it? Its just... sad... to hear it.
Post by
355559
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
taurenmoo812
Alright then tauren, please stop trolling. I've heard enough.
and you are?
Post by
355559
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
I don't care skree. Call me ignorent if you want, but theres nothing in the way the stories going that makes me see anything good on the horizon. You've already hammered all the plot for me, so why should I look at it any other way?
I've said it countless times. The horde meant something to me, because with the horde I finally found a genre where the orcs weren't just some lord of the rings evil thug rip offs. I read though from rise of the horde right up to now, and for me, only when Thrall lead the horde did I finally think 'yes, this is it'.
I don't feel any of that reading this now, looking at the text overhead for many of the orcs in cata, looking at there phrase for garrosh and there want for warmongering, just like the old horde.
Thrall didn't just lead the horde, he wasn't just some random orc leader to say 'he had a good run', he actully made me think yeah, I like the horde because of how they are here. so without him as that example, nothings gonna be the same with it.Well you know how I feel about the New Horde and how I feel about the Old Horde.
You know how I feel about people like Thrall, Drek'thar, and Saurfang; and how I feel about people like Garrosh, Krenna, and Agmar.
You've heard me voice my concerns about Garrosh and the company he kept since Wrath of the Lich King was first released, and you must certainly remember how much I railed against the changes that were leaked about Wrath of the Lich King, about Garrosh becoming killing Cairne and becoming Warchief.
And you know how I feel about violence in the World of Warcraft, and how much I hate the warmongering that people like Garrosh and Varian have been known to do.
And I can say, without a doubt, that reading this book has made me more excited about Cataclysm than ever.
Post by
taurenmoo812
So even when we have effectivly split characters like Thrall, Saurfang and Drek'thar into one side, and characters like Garrosh and Varian into another, its now accepting that Garrosh is the perma warchief, and the warchief that made the horde this noble/savage horde had abandoned it. I actully had hope that after the crisis with deathwing and the elemental lords was over, he would come back to lead the horde again.. But now.. after what you say, I've actully lost any hope in that.
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
taurenmoo812
apparently the only direction the writers felt they could go in was to give the horde another warmonger leader and drag it back though the old horde way of thinking, because that was what the horde was meant to really be about right? No noble savage heroes with a dark past, just some brutes running around and tearing up stuff.
I wish for a third faction the more I hear of cata.
Edit: Also Skree, the funny thing is, for a while I was saying, my fear was, that Thrall wouldn't return to the horde, and I even said the way there developing Garrosh puts it ahead they would never make him leader again or the horde the same again, but several said I should just wait and see, including you I believe. Now look, and seeing what you say.. guess my fears weren't so irrational after all.
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