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[4.0.1] Is it me or is Hunter's DPS compared to other classes horrible?
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Post by
Fulgurah
Yes, we are QQing because hunters are very, very weak right now relative to where they used to be, and where they should be. As such, our QQ is justified.
Prove it.
Post by
Interest
Yes, we are QQing because hunters are very, very weak right now relative to where they used to be, and where they should be. As such, our QQ is justified.
Prove it.
There was some parses on page 5 I think proving just that.
*
Class - effective DPS
*
Mage - 13575.683916917895
*
Shaman - 12920.062860374192
*
Warlock - 9790.297762136159
*
Warrior - 9544.995313219435
*
Rogue - 9185.03964523883
*
Death Knight - 7698.754049048371
*
Hunter - 7170.618863688528
*
Druid - 7161.558132857966
*
Paladin - 6310.920759748748
*
Priest - 6262.051728476458
Not exactly 100% accurate, but it does match up to what WorldofLogs had last week in terms of...say...ranking (Boomkin Druids are monstrous, so ignore Druids being at the bottom. Same with Paladin and Priest. Healing roles were counted in this).
Edit: I would like to add one more thing. I have seen such a ridiculous amount of complaining on the Hunter Forums on the Official side, and I think in Damage Dealing that almost definitively proves this is not just noobs ^&*!@ing and moaning about low dps. I've seen some excellent arguments to why Hunters are having issues in the DPS department on both the PvE and PvP side.
Post by
xcrunr1647
Yes, we are QQing because hunters are very, very weak right now relative to where they used to be, and where they should be. As such, our QQ is justified.
Prove it.
Thanks Interest
Post by
143352
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Fulgurah
I question the methodology of how that was collected (as seen on page 6) because it way, way too all-encompassing...I'd like to see more about what parses exactly were collected for that information. Was it all raids from WoL for the time period, only certain raids, only certain fights?
If it's OVERALL damage for Hunters right now, then I agree it shows just how disgusting our AoE DPS is.
I'd like to see information about only boss DPS for all of those classes.
Edit: These are honest questions and not meant to minimize the effort the poster went to to collect this data. Obviously, this is much more comprehensive than the stuff I've posted. I'd just like to learn a little more about it.
Post by
632573
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Post by
683852
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Post by
Fulgurah
Thanks for the explanation on your methodology. I certainly would not ever go to such lengths to gather it, so my hats off to you.
Here's what I'll say as a shorter response. I think "overall DPS" for entire raids is a flawed metric from which to analyze a classes DPS in today's world, simply because the only thing people care about is "boss DPS." It's also too easy to just point to the "top parses," because as we all know, some classes are just higher than others (and anything with a Shadowmourne obviously beats the crap out of other classes for the most part).
I talked about AoE DPS for the following reasons: (1) We all know that hunter AoE DPS is absolute and complete junk right now, particularly as MM. Survival is a little better (Serpent Spread + Imp. SrS), but still not anywhere near other classes; (2) Trash damage is USUALLY going to end up being a large chunk of "overall damage." For instance, in my latest parse, I did 53.8 million damage throughout the night. Almost 20 million of that was on "trash" as defined in WoL. My effective DPS on this trash was 6.5k. Meanwhile, on boss kills, I did 27 million damage (the extra 7 million damage appears to have been on failed boss attempts). My effective DPS for those kills was 11.5k. That is a huge difference between the two DPS numbers and I don't think the 6.5k tells us anything; (3) your averages incorporate both 10 and 25 man raids.
Now obviously, all of that information has a place. And, for what it's worth, it does show hunters lagging behind other classes. I think, however, that people are going to misconstrue the numbers to mean whatever it is they want it to mean.
I'll re-iterate my overall point for clarification: Hunter DPS, specifically on boss fights, is at or slightly above where it was pre 4.0.1. People claiming that the "world is falling" are exaggerating without much evidence. Already we've seen in this thread people claim that hunter DPS was "down with the tanks" and that "top hunters are not seeing a DPS increase," both of which are false. Do I think Hunter DPS could use more adjusting? Yes, of course. I want to top meters just as much as anyone else. But right now, we're a week and a half into a transition period and we don't know if any more will change or won't change. And it's this echo chamber you see on the forums that gets me. Hunters simply are not "weak from where we used to be" or doing pathetic DPS, unless someone who has no idea what they are doing is playing.
Post by
575857
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Post by
494341
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683852
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Post by
632573
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494341
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Post by
Pezwar
That's cool and all and while I agree things will probably be different at 85; we're (according to your signature, so I'm not 100% on this) not 85 yet. We won't be 85 for nearly 2 months. People like to perform their best, whether it be at 50,60,70 or 80 and due to the new 'balances' that's not possible.
No, you can still perform your best. No one / nothing is stopping you from doing so, save yourself. People just need to realize and accept the fact that their "best" isn't as good as it used to be compared to everyone else. Hunters still do enough DPS to be brought to raids. Each spec brings a raid buff. Each pet can bring an entirely separate raid buff. We have one of the only forms of CC in the game that works on practically everything. We have misdirection for add control now that tanks aren't pumping out as insane amounts of AoE threat.
There're still plenty of reasons to bring a hunter to a raid. Our DPS is low, but it's only been a week and a half since we had quite possibly the biggest class overhauls in WoW's history, save maybe paladins (all three times). How many of you all, who are complaining about your DPS being bad, play perfectly now? How many of you are SV or BM, playing without Cobra shot - A major rotation changing ability? How many are completely used to using focus and had 100% effiency?
Give it time and enjoy playing. Enjoy raiding, pvp, farming. Whatever it is that you like to do. If having low DPS makes you want to retire your hunter or quit playing, then go ahead. Reroll some FotM class / spec. A true hunter will always be a hunter. Through the ups and the downs. (Just ask any die hard BM fan.)
Post by
LoqueNahak
Give it time and enjoy playing. Enjoy raiding, pvp, farming. Whatever it is that you like to do. If having low DPS makes you want to retire your hunter or quit playing, then go ahead. Reroll some FotM class / spec. A true hunter will always be a hunter. Through the ups and the downs. (Just ask any die hard BM fan.)
Well said. It's true that we're in a phase of "transition" between our old class and the new one (plus the fact that stuff will be optimized at level 85). Blizzard already stated more than once that things will be "chaotic" until Cata hits the live servers... so it's just a matter of having some faith and re-learn our class before Cata arrives.
Post by
wildx22
(1) We all know that hunter AoE DPS is absolute and complete junk right now, particularly as MM. Survival is a little better (Serpent Spread + Imp. SrS), but still not anywhere near other classes;
Actually quite untrue. Our SV hunter was topping for every AoE trash mob like crazy. I was so jealous (I tried on both BM & MM and couldn't get anywhere close ;_;). But on single target he still dropped to my level ahaha.
Post by
togun
Apparently some people are bad at diction and missed the part where GC said they aren't balancing around level 80. Cobra Shot anyone?
wtf does that have to do with mm dps god you ppl
Post by
Wildhorn
@xcrunr1647: First, thanks for the typo point out. (now I find English language even more silly and will try to figure out how to pronounce that word with that extra "i"... ree-kroo-ee-ting?)
Second, the "pure" dps class like you call them dont bring less utility (they bring alot of raid buff/debuff), they just bring less ROLES.
Which is the choice you made when choose your class. You choose to have the posibility to DPS in 3 differents way. A paladin choose to be able to DPS only in 1 way to be able to also have the option to switch spec/gears (which none is doable during a fight btw). You choose diversity in your role instead to choose diversity as role.
It is like having 3 different sport cars while someone else might have 1 sport car, 1 truck and 1 minivan. There is no reason his sport car should be less competitive than your.
So there is no reason for hunter to do more damage than a DPS specced paladin (neither that paladin should do more). But right now, class are not balanced (and wont be for the next 6 and half weeks) so comparing yourself to them is just silly.
Post by
Rilgon
@xcrunr1647: Stop to call "pure dps". Hunter have 3 DPS spec, doesnt make them more pure than a class who have 2 dps spec and 1 tank spec.
Uh... that's exactly what "Pure DPS" means - a class that can do nothing but DPS.
Edit: And damn, you would think that a .-*/
LOCALIZER
\*-. would know how to properly write.
Post by
Wildhorn
Im starting to get annoyed by your personal attacks Rilgon. And my job as localizer is to translate english terms to my own language. Not to properly write in english.
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