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[4.0.1] Is it me or is Hunter's DPS compared to other classes horrible?
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Post by
Fulgurah
I talked about my specific numbers in the first page, which everyone overlooked. I'll post three logs here:
3.3.5 Log:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/9vcevqe314el363a/
(10/12 Heroic ICC)
First 4.0.1 Logs:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/kzaql7y9xqrw6mrl/
(6/10 Heroic)
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/6ke73bxj7276r0r6/
(Rest of ICC Heroic)
This week:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/iqfntwa1jsna99gg/
(11/12 Heroic ICC)
As I started numerous times on this forum that they would/should, they did buff Chimera/Kill Command/Explosive by 15-25% tonight. As you can see from the logs from tonight, my DPS was higher than last week AND higher than 3.3.5. All of the above parses are me as MM (except for the one LK fight I did LOL BM).
Again, I don't consider myself (or my guild) the greatest, so you'll find mistakes. I never claimed to be the greatest player, nor will I ever. HOWEVER, I think the people who complain about how bad Hunter DPS is and about how only bad hunters saw DPS increases are just flat-out wrong, and all the evidence supports that fact.
Again, we were just hot-fixed, which means Blizz did recognize the problem. We're not THAT underpowered when compared to other classes, but I do agree that Locks/Mages were out of whack for a while and everything is resorting back to the mean now.
We're fine and have been fine since 4.0.1.
Post by
Fulgurah
Here's some very snap comparison for you, as seen in my logs above. I'm reposting for the sake of not having a huge ass post.
Festergut pre 4.0.1: 15.2k (stars aligned fight)
Festergut tonight: 14.5k
Rotface pre 4.0.1: 14.4k
Rotface tonight: 14.6k
Professor pre 4.0.1: 11.3k
Professor tonight: 11.7k
Sindragosa pre 4.0.1: 10.5k
Sindragosa tonight: 12k
Caveats apply: Every fight is different and I'm not the greatest. I would also preface any parse of mine with the fact that I'm still getting used to the Focus system and was under the false assumption that SS/Arcane spam was still the way to go tonight. Several times during high movement, I resorted back to this and probably should not have.
Post by
kemppy
one thing i see people look over is the fact it is a new system, everytime i go at the dumbies i try something new and my dps will go up or down, time is something blizz has given us, we have time to get used to this and work out what is best for our own dps, i am BM and i know the way i work it is worthwhile me taken the 30% instant damage from SS from the surv tree, i have always used SS as a shot not a debuff i keep up, and you know what.........i have never been that bad, i got BM to work well in a raid (by well i mean bout middle) so i know to work round things....people i know that have played "easy" spec's are finding it hard, they dont know hw to adapt, they still try there old rotation and fail
Post by
wildx22
^ It's not only the rigid dumb players who're performing far worse than mages & locks.
Post by
kemppy
^ It's not only the rigid dumb players who're performing far worse than mages & locks.
i know that i am going from what i have seen (hunting party works well trying new things, and yes we actually did go out hunting, i was game master and i set what we hunted) i just think it is silly how most people say dps compared to 3.3.5 is lower......well guess what till you figure it out and how to push it, you wont top the charts
Post by
143352
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Lorkin
And if thats the case, I rather just make a druid who can pwn us in DPS with 2 diff specs, and still respec to be a tank or healer?
What's stopping you from making a druid? You could probably hit 80 by the time Cata hits and you can continue on from there. My brother is a huge fan of druids, but I can't personally stand the different forms etc.
If you think the hybrid mentality applies to WoW then you are clearly wrong. There is no more hybrid tax. Just because you are a "pure" dps class doesn't automatically grant you the right to be top dps. You seem to have grass is greener syndrome so you should reroll another class.
For some of us, we've done that already. I remember asking myself why play my 3rd warrior when paladins can do just the same thing but better. So I switched from a warrior to a paladin and have been having a blast. Its a game in the end, when someone doesn't suit your style anymore either quit or reroll. Sooner or later you'll get tired of that and play the class that you enjoy doing what they were designed to do most.
I can guarantee you that if you like dps'ing and roll a druid, there's a good chance your friends or guildies will want you to tank or heal. Some people feel the obligation to switch roles for the greater good. In the end though, you'll be doing something you originally didn't want to do. I play a hunter PURELY to dps and pvp on the side. I CAN'T be sidetracked to tank or heal and I love that about the class.
Post by
683852
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
143352
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Fulgurah
Stop justifying everything you have recently posted by comparing DPS of and DPS from
tonight
because I just saw your logs of the DPS compared to and they are indeed lower proving my point that Hunter's clearly needed a buff. Btw both Feral and Balance druids raped your DPS. Idk about you but I don't think Hunters should be pwned in DPS by TWO-specs of a class that can do 4 things. Thats just me. I didn't look at all the other DPS but I'm sure that you and the 2 other Hunters were probably consistently at the bottom of the DPS.
Why are people so terrible at reading logs? I was asked to provide logs and I did. On nearly every fight, I did more DPS last night than 3.3.5. Can you please spot out specific fights where I was out DPSed by both the Balance and Feral druid? (Edit: By the way, I was disconnected for 50% of the Saurfang fight, which is why my DPS is below both on that one specific occasion).
To say that hunters are "pwned in DPS by TWO specs of a class" is simply wrong. Ferals were over-buffed, I'll grant you that.
Also, if you're comparing LAST weeks parses, before the hunter hotfix and BEFORE the Boomkin nerfs, then I really have nothing more to add to that discussion.
As I've posted several times, it's not just me seeing DPS increases on most fights, top of the line hunters from nearly every "top guild" are as well, as see in the parses linked earlier in this thread.
Post by
Fulgurah
And just so we're clear here, I'll be a specific as I can with this point:
I keep pointing out that "hunters are fine" because we ARE doing competitive DPS with what we were doing before 4.0.1 and in most cases, higher DPS with an entirely new focus system that will probably receive tweaks as we go forward into Cata. I think we are missing a huge part of our rotation for 2/3rds of our specs (Cobra Shot) and another Aspect (pun intended) that will increase our DPS in certain high movement fights (Aspect of the Fox).
However, the people who are stating that Hunters are "broken" and our DPS is "down with the tanks" are absolutely, 110% wrong. That isn't the case right now. It wasn't when 4.0.1 first went live. I think the numbers were incredibly out of whack when 4.0.1 was released, and have slowly been getting back to a better place.
I would love to see our DPS/rotation in a place that when a Hunter plays absolutely perfectly and the stars align that we have a chance at out-DPSing people. Under current conditions, that's a long shot if the other people in your guild are competent at all. HOWEVER, this is an exceedingly short period of time we're talking about and Hunter DPS isn't exactly in the pits right now.
If you want to get into the entire Pure/Hybrid discussion, then that's cool. My own guild has been doing so itself. But a lot of people are just seemingly actually upset with the current state of hunters and I'm trying to add a little sanity back to the discussion. We're not hopelessly broken. We're not in such a terrible place that they should scrap the focus system and try again. And at 85, I think all of our problems pretty simply evaporate and everyone will get a good laugh at this discussion right now.
Post by
wildx22
^ It's not only the rigid dumb players who're performing far worse than mages & locks.
i know that i am going from what i have seen (hunting party works well trying new things, and yes we actually did go out hunting, i was game master and i set what we hunted) i just think it is silly how most people say dps compared to 3.3.5 is lower......well guess what till you figure it out and how to push it, you wont top the charts
I don't think our dps compared to 3.3.5 is lower. This whole thread is about our dps compared to
other classes
being lower,
despite (near-)perfect rotation
.
You're saying we're only low in the charts because we're doing it wrong. But even if we're doing it right we're still behind.
Post by
143352
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
143352
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
xcrunr1647
Yeah I basically quit PvPing on my hunter within 5 minutes of my first bg after 4.0. I then quit PvP on my feral, because his damage is still good but everyone else seems to have gotten incredible buffs and I seem to have trouble killing anything in a BG setting. In duels I still pwn, but for some reason bgs I just suxzors.
I then quit PvE on my hunter unless I'm helping out guildies.
So yeah I'm pretty much playing my pally now, building up a healing set.
QQ
Post by
Fulgurah
Before
and
After
. If you notice, your DPS only went up by 1% while other classes saw tremendous DPS increases. Also, you're gear is very decent, so maybe Hunter scaling sucks bawls? Also your Aimed shot hits like a girl, which is probably why you don't even use it much yourself (isnt worth the GCD?) Consider a Desto Warlock's Conflag crits over 35K on Average and thats the spell they gain as their talent specialization AND it is instant. Aimed ^&*! which is MM's talent specialization spell which has a 3sec cast and 3sec cooldown doesnt even crit for more than 8.5K on average. Thats lame, considering it was very powerful prior. Do you think it's fair that the Fury Warrior gained like 2K DPS while you only gained like 200 DPS? Fulgurah I am done with you, if you do not get the point I am trying to get across to you, there is nothing more I can do.
Your point keeps changing.
What exactly is your point? That other classes got more of a DPS increase than us? I never argued differently.
That does NOT mean that hunter DPS is broken. As I've shown, Hunter DPS is better than it was before 4.0.1. I love that I show endless parses of this fact, and still you choose to bold and repeat something that someone said without any sort of evidence. It's like an echo chamber in here.
Post by
xcrunr1647
Ok, let's put this in layman's terms.
Virtually all classes recieved "buffs".
Some received much stronger buffs than others.
Hunters received "buffs" that are apparently significantly weaker than most other classes.
As such, Hunter dps may not be "broken" but it is certainly
obsolete
...considering we are a pure dps class, this is unacceptable.
/thread
Post by
Wildhorn
@xcrunr1647: Stop to call "pure dps". Hunter have 3 DPS spec, doesnt make them more pure than a class who have 2 dps spec and 1 tank spec.
All I see in this thread is "Waaaa waaaa, other class are doing more damage than me because everything is balanced for level 85 but the mathematic behind their spells is more beneficial than mine for level 80".
Get over it. You just have 7 weeks to suck it up.
Post by
170457
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
xcrunr1647
blah blah blah I''m ignorant
I stopped reading here. You have no idea what you're talking about.
Just to be perfectly clear...
Druids have 1 tank spec, 2 dps specs, and 1 healing spec.
Paladins have 1 tank spec, 1 healing spec, and 1 dps spec.
Druids and pallies are the least "pure" classes because they have the largest variety of available roles in a raid. Essentially, they provide more utility.
Hunters, mages, rogues, and warlocks have 3 dps specs...
all
they can do is dps. They provide minimum utility. As such, their strength is that they have the ability to bring insane balls-out dps to a raid. "Pure" dps.
Making a hybrid class like a druid or paladin capable of going balls to the wall and roflstompwtfbbqpwning a "pure" dps class such as one of the 4 I listed simply makes no sense...the whole idea of bringing a pure dps class to a raid is that their dps is (relatively) unbeatable.
When a class that can also heal and/or tank can beat them with ease...it completely erases the need to have one of these pure classes to a raid. I mean, why have a class that can only dps when you can have one that can dps better, as well as tank or heal when a raid member drops, providing infinitely more utility to a raid?
Yes, we are QQing because hunters are very, very weak right now relative to where they used to be, and where they should be. As such, our QQ is justified.
FYI: you spelled "recruiting" incorrectly on your user page and guild recruitment post
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