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[4.2.0] Mutilate raiding
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Post by
Liquoid
Spec:
31/2/8
With 4.2.0 live, the glyph, talent and poison choices are still the same as well as the rotation. Yes, EP values of stats changed significantly as a result of some talents getting buffed, but the general step-by-step instructions in the guide are still accurate. Thus the guide should still be accurate to extent deemed worthy.
Glyphs:
Prime:
Glyph of Mutilate
and
Glyph of Rupture
. Third glyph slot should be
Glyph of Backstab
.
Major:
Glyph of Fan of Knives
and
Glyph of Sprint
. Third is up to you.
Minor:
Glyph of Blurred Speed
,
Glyph of Poisons
and
Glyph of Safe Fall
.
Please note that if you're actively raiding with a stable set-up, Major Glyph of ToTT is a raid DPS increase, and should be your third Major Glyph.
Rotation:
If possible, start with Garrote. If not, Mutilate. In both cases, you want to start out in Stealth due to
Overkill
Acquire 3-4 Combo Points
Slice and Dice
Mutilate until you have 4+ Combo Points
Vendetta (if possible) + Rupture
Mutilate until you have 4+ Combo Points
Cold Blood (if possible) + Envenom
Once the boss is below 35% HP, use Backstab instead of Mutilate. Don't clip Rupture and Envenom, pool energy instead. Don't refresh your Rupture while it's still up. Instead, you should wait until it expires. At the same time, you will see your energy go up. If it goes up to 120 and your Rupture is still up, only then you can overwrite (clip) the Rupture. Using finishers when you have a lot of energy, almost maximum amount, is called pooling. Watch out for the Relentless Strikes procs, however, and plan accordingly.
Same can be said about using Envenom and "clipping" the Envenom self-buff.
To keep track of whether your Envenom buff is up, it is advisable to use an addon - currently I'm using
ForteXorcist
myself. Alternative addons are
Power Auras Classic
,
NeedToKnow
and
EventHorizon
.
You should Vanish when your first Overkill fades, and then Vanish every time it's ready to maximise Overkill's uptime. If possible, time Vanish with offensive raid cooldowns, such as Heroism / Bloodlust.
#showtooltip Vanish
/cast Vanish
/startattack
If the fight involves frequent target switching, then use the following as replacement for your Mutilate button:
#showtooltip Mutilate
/startattack
/cast Mutilate
Due to new dot mechanics, last dot tick will be incorporated the next dot of the same type you apply on the boss. this means that when we are refreshing a 5cp rupture, if we clip it between 3 and 0 sec remaining, we won't lose the tick, but we also gain dps since we really extend the new rupture duration shifiting the ticks.
Post by
DoomEU
Nice post.
Rotation is interesting. Is it really better to aquire 3-4 CP before SnD? Surely 1 cp SnD (From garotte) then a 1-3 cp envenom would be better?
That would delay the application of rupture but waste fewer CPs on SnD.
Do you have any numbers for this?
Post by
2259
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Post by
Liquoid
Nice post.
Rotation is interesting. Is it really better to aquire 3-4 CP before SnD? Surely 1 cp SnD (From garotte) followed by SnD then a 1-3 cp envenom would be better?
That would delay the application of rupture but waste fewer CPs on SnD.
Do you have any numbers for this?
Interesting thought, but I think getting Rupture up sooner is more important. I'll test it out nevertheless.
Post by
Caperon
Each time your Rupture
or
Garrote deals damage to an enemy that you have poisoned, you have a 60% chance to deal 403 additional Nature damage and to regain 10 Energy....
If you start with garrote, that'll give you 18 seconds to get a rupture rolling for the VW proccs.
So my guess is that garrote -> snd -> mutilate -> envenom is better, as long as you can get a rupture rolling before garrote falls off (which isnt hard, since 18 seconds is more then enough)
Also this gives you a chance to get your rotation rolling and poping vendetta right before you go into rupture.
Post by
335609
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Post by
Liquoid
At this point of time I barely have any maths to backup viability of Backstab, largely due to having no tools to sim a rotation with. I can't calculate the EP values of Vendetta and Backstab glyph yet, and whether using Backstab with its corresponding glyph will cause us to regenerate so much energy that we'll end up clipping Envenom buff past 35%.
Post by
Caperon
So, I'm sitting at 3 combo points -- do I mutilate or envenom? In the post you say mutilate to 4+ -- but is it really worth it considering you may be wasting a CP?
4+, same as before.
Is maximizing Rupture uptime more important than a cheaper Slice 'N' Dice to be efficient with Combo Points?
Depends if you can keep snd up enough to do an envenom after your rupture.
When do I use "x" Glyph?
What? Oo
What factors influence the value of Vendetta versus Backstab?
Currently i would say that vendetta is better, since we are loading loads of energy atm.
Why is Backstab better below 35%? Don't I have tons of energy anyways?
Yes, but im almost certain that backstab hits harder than mutilate and at below 35% has a better cps per energy.
How valuable is Backstab on multi-target fights where things may die quickly? Is the damage output worth the lack of combo points?
No, i would say mutilate since it can procc both poisons aswell.
And, finally:
Is Caperon really a panda in real life?
Euh..? xD
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Post by
asakawa
quick question regarding rupture clipping.:
one of the major changes for casters (in my case specifically locks) in 4.0.1 has been the change to DoT refresh mechanics. previously if i spammed a DoT it would never tick because each application would reset the tick timer to zero. with 4.0.1 recasting a DoT resets the duration to max but leaves the tick timer unaffected.
the result is that we're now advising warlocks to clip their DoTs. recasting at any time between the second-to-last and last tick increases uptime to 100% without effecting efficiency, you don't even lose that last tick.
so, after that long pre-amble, i'm wondering do bleed DoTs still use the old mechanic or might there be merit to clipping.
Post by
Vanchatron
Many thanks, that's brilliant. What do you mean by "Clip" Rupture & Envenom though, and also why would I need to see if the Envenom buff was up or not? I figured that was pretty much something passive I didn't need to pay attention to (unless I'm thinking of the wrong buff).
Thanks again ^_^
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235810
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166665
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Post by
Vanchatron
The envenom buff increases the chance of applying deadly poison, you don't want to clip(reapplying rupture or the envenom buff by using rupture and envenom respectively before you get the full benefit, like the damage from rupture or the stacks of deadly poison(correct me if I worded this wrong)) these as it would result in a loss of dps.
What? We don't spam Envenom if it's possible? I've always spammed Envenom when I had 4+ combo points. I never waited for a buff to run out before using Envenom to refresh it. Do we really not spam Envenom & only use it when the Envenom buff has run out, so that we can refresh it?
If so, it seems I'll have a big pool of wasted energy, as I won't be spamming Envenom.
Sorry if I've misunderstood, I might have read it all wrong.
Post by
335609
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Post by
asakawa
ah right, it does sound like bleeds are following the 3.3.5 DoT rules.
good to know, thanks for testing that out.
Post by
Caperon
I'm having pretty bad aggro problems on Warrior and Pally tanks atm. I'm pulling threat quickly. (these tanks are in heroic icc 25 man gear, with some heroic tier as well. I picked up Glyph of Feint seems to be pretty helpful for a 3rd glyph. When cata comes out, i'll pick up Glyph of ToTT.Any thoughts on this?
Get better tanks instead of gimping your dps?
What? We don't spam Envenom if it's possible? I've always spammed Envenom when I had 4+ combo points. I never waited for a buff to run out before using Envenom to refresh it. Do we really not spam Envenom & only use it when the Envenom buff has run out, so that we can refresh it?
/facepalm
If so, it seems I'll have a big pool of wasted energy, as I won't be spamming Envenom.
Its better to o an evenom rather than energy cap, but if you wont be capped then you try to max buff uptime.
Ps
Clicky
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