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Human trinket racial nerf.
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Post by
cloudp
And actually Druids almost never need to cast unless you're putting pressure on them. If you are putting pressure on them then you can either hard switch, or use CC.
Cyclone.
Roots.
Offensive if it's a caster druid.
And AT is a SILENCE. Not an interrupt. It can be used preemptivelly.
You didn't understand my point at all. The reason I am considering WS/AT as "Not situational" is because you will have uses for both in almost any match. Having Will of the forsaken against Mage/Rogue is exactly the same as having no racial at all. As I stated almost any competitive comp you'll find will use some sort of caster (since any team with a healer pretty much will, and many double DPS do as well (Mage/X, Lock/X, Shadow/X), AT will almost always find an use in a match. I can't even understand your point against mine in War Stomp. Are you telling me you are NEVER in melee range or halting your movement in an entire arena match? Because your point only stands if those 2 are true...
Diminishing returns?
...Aren't up 100% of the fight?...
And I don't recall this being an alliance VS horde comparison. I simply used AT/WS as an example, not because they're horde.
Post by
688014
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Caperon
Diminishing returns?
...Aren't up 100% of the fight?...
Which makes it situational, lol?
Post by
HoleofArt
Diminishing returns?
...Aren't up 100% of the fight?...
Which makes it situational, lol?
Not situational in the context cloudp earlier clarified. That was his point.
But, putting things into perspective, none of those are situational, because they will probably play a part in almost any given arena match. Will of the Forsaken, THAT is situational - it has no use against, say, rogue/mage. Arcane Torrent or War Stomp are not.
Post by
FaustInDeath
Hmmm ... 2v2 frost/disc on wrath ... most of the games at 2k generaly don't require me to trinket unless i get sapped but having mage armor and geting perma dispelled by my partener.This makes some games not using my medalion so (i m not counting druid teams or rogue teams) but generaly i don't trinket much since mages are so hard to pin down so why shouldn't i get a DFO and a bauble or w/e for a 3 min cooldown on meda? this being the case i don't consider this to be too big of a nerf. It is stupid since it benefits only several classes while others have to use them no matter what (generaly healers).
Post by
Alixie
Quick way to prove EMfH is piss poor: To every other race, would you like to trade your active radical for Every Man for Himself?
*silence*
Yup, thought so. =/
Post by
TheVorago
Quick way to prove EMfH is piss poor: To every other race, would you like to trade your active radical for Every Man for Himself?
*silence*
Yup, thought so. =/
QFT ;)
well i really dislike human casting and movement animations anyway, maybe its time for a race change...
Post by
Caperon
Diminishing returns?
...Aren't up 100% of the fight?...
Which makes it situational, lol?
Not situational in the context cloudp earlier clarified. That was his point.
Diminishing returns?
Post by
fuhrerschein
cap i think by not situational he just means it has its uses against any class or class combination in pvp
whereas you say it is situational because of diminishing returns its not useful 100 percent of the time
simple misunderstanding of defining "situational"
but i did like your post with blood fury, good point
Post by
cloudp
...
As you aren't getting it, I'll attempt to explain my point again.
Consider this as the situation: Arena Match.
Now, consider Will of the Forsaken. You have it, and are facing rogue/mage. Will you use it, no matter which variables you change (length of the match, burst phases, etc)? You won't.
As WotF doesn't fit all given situations
, it is a situational spell.
Now, consider Arcane Torrent. It provides you your resource of choice for extra burst, and a Silence effect that affects 6/10 classes on the game. Will you use it during your match...
As a burst cooldown? Will burst situations occur?
-Most likelly.
As a Silence? Is there a healer?
-Probably.
It is an all-dps team, but is there a caster?
-Possibly.
As a mana sustainability spell? Will you run out of mana?
-Possibly.
Evaluating all possible outcomes of your match (Extended/reduced length, etc.)?
-Certainly.
As Arcane Torrent fits any given situation
, it is not a situational spell, but a spell with the potential to be used in any match.
Post by
671992
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Caperon
Now, consider Will of the Forsaken. You have it, and are facing rogue/mage. Will you use it, no matter which variables you change (length of the match, burst phases, etc)? You won't.
As WotF doesn't fit all given situations
, it is a situational spell.
Now, consider Every Man For Himself. You have it and the 2min cd trinket, and are facing . Will you use it, no matter which variables you change (length of the match, burst phases, etc)? You won't.
As EmfH doesnt fit any given situation
, it is an useless spell.
I hope you see how ridiculous this.
Now, consider Arcane Torrent. It provides you your resource of choice for extra burst, and a Silence effect that affects 6/10 classes on the game.
fear:
warrior (intimidating shout)
priest (psychic scream)
warlock (fear/howl of terror)
pally (turn evil (very specific case of dk using lichborne or lock popping meta))
charm:
warlock (succubus seduce)
sleep:
hunter (wyvern sting)
As Arcane Torrent fits any given situation
, it is not a situational spell, but a spell with the potential to be used in any match.
Lets say you play rogue/mage and the enemy healer is at 10%.
You (belf rogue) use your racial, however the enemy healer recovers from this, but you and your partner get him down to 10% again and now your friend mage does his silence.
Too bad, its a close call again, mostly because the last silence had dr.
...
All racials are situational, some just more than others.
Post by
cloudp
Now, consider Will of the Forsaken. You have it, and are facing rogue/mage. Will you use it, no matter which variables you change (length of the match, burst phases, etc)? You won't.
As WotF doesn't fit all given situations
, it is a situational spell.
Now, consider Every Man For Himself. You have it and the 2min cd trinket, and are facing . Will you use it, no matter which variables you change (length of the match, burst phases, etc)? You won't.
As EmfH doesnt fit any given situation
, it is an useless spell.
I hope you see how ridiculous this.
Sorry, but what does this have to do with anything? Medallion and EMFH are mutually exclusive, I don't understand what you mean to prove with this.
Now, consider Arcane Torrent. It provides you your resource of choice for extra burst, and a Silence effect that affects 6/10 classes on the game.
fear:
warrior (intimidating shout)
priest (psychic scream)
warlock (fear/howl of terror)
pally (turn evil (very specific case of dk using lichborne or lock popping meta))
charm:
warlock (succubus seduce)
sleep:
hunter (wyvern sting)
OK... What do you mean to prove by this?...
As Arcane Torrent fits any given situation
, it is not a situational spell, but a spell with the potential to be used in any match.
Lets say you play rogue/mage and the enemy healer is at 10%.
You (belf rogue) use your racial, however the enemy healer recovers from this, but you and your partner get him down to 10% again and now your friend mage does his silence.
Too bad, its a close call again, mostly because the last silence had dr.
There's a window of time that AT wouldn't affect the next counterspell. If you CS-AT up to 24-15=9 seconds after Counterspell, the DR will still reset 15 seconds after AT's cast, which won't cause a conflict. (If the healer is at 10%, you would switch the order of your spells there to CS-AT. THAT would score a kill on the same situation.)
...
All racials are situational, some just more than others.
Being situational isn't quantifiable in the context I'm using it. Situational is a two-way only deal: Something is situational or it isn't. Contextualize, perhaps I could say that my choice of words was poor in refering to "Situational". But I'm sure you're getting the meaning.
Post by
Caperon
I dont like quote wars and especially not when the other does something weird in responding. So ill just take the most important part out.
Being situational isn't quantifiable in the context I'm using it. Situational is a two-way only deal: Something is situational or it isn't.
All racials are situational, some just more than others.
Contextualize, perhaps I could say that my choice of words was poor in refering to "Situational". But I'm sure you're getting the meaning.
Are you getting mine?
Post by
105944
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Post by
671564
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105944
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Post by
424512
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671564
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Post by
MrSCH
ignoring the fact that I have standing arguments in this thread that no one has been able to argue against, if you would ever want to discuss PvP balance in relationship to emfh,
here
is a thread that you should familiarize yourself with
Hehe well I disagree with your initial post ^^
I agree with everything you said except I think all serious PvPers will not go for 2x PvE trinkets but 1x PvE and 1x PvP. Just my opinion, based on no fact whatsoever ;)
(But yeh, the guy spouting that 2x PvE trinkets is unfair is full of &*!@.)
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