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BM hunter vs. Enh Shammy vs. any spec rogue
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Post by
Lemma
IMO a rogue should be spamming Feint as much as a hunter should be Feigning everytime its up.
lol
Post by
Qlix
wow.... another rogue being counter productive... whoda thunk it?
Post by
118713
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Qlix
an entire server population cant all suck...
Post by
Lemma
an entire server population cant all suck...
You're the guy who said rogues should use Feint in their rotation so it's gonna be hard to reestablish credibility. If you're outdpsing rogues by 300 dps, it's probably because they're using Feint in their rotation...
Post by
Qlix
ok genius... this thread was started to gain a better understanding of certain class abilities:
so -
IMO
a rogue should be spamming Feint as much as a hunter should be Feigning everytime its up.
did ya catch that?
IMO
one more time... things seem a lil harder for you to understand....
I
n
M
y
O
pinion
since youre gonna sit there and are be a &*!@ about the post... throw somethng USEFUL out? Because I dont understand why a class would NOT use an ability that they have available to them to REDUCE THREAT and then say that they have threat issues and use that a reason why they could be out done by another class.
IN MY OPINION
Feint is there for a reason... use the damn thing... otherwise explain to me how you could possible LOSE dps by using it. ANY threat reduction is better than NONE at all.
Post by
Lemma
since youre gonna sit there and are be a &*!@ about the post... throw somethng USEFUL out?
I'm just saying, the OP asked to compare
BM Hunter
(what the OP obviously plays=bias)
Enh Shaman
(what his friend obviously plays=bias)
any spec Rogue
(what neither of them play but both continually see at the top of their meters=no bias)
Like I said, you know he doesn't play a rogue, otherwise he would've said Combat Rogue because that's the best representative for raid dps. Shadowstep rogues lose a lot of dps as do Hemo. But for single-target dps it's, once again,
Hunter, Rogue, Warlock, Mage
. I've seen boomkins do well too.
Fury Warrs: Sorry but you're there for Battle Shout. That's why raids only take but one.
Elem/Enh Shamans: totems plz
Shad Priest: mana regen plz
Ret Paladin: I've never raided with a ret paladin so I can't really say but the fact most guilds don't use a ret paladin at all... well...
So if the OP asked which of the 3 is best single-target DPS, the answer is either hunter or rogue depending on the player and situation.
Post by
Qlix
since youre gonna sit there and are be a &*!@ about the post... throw somethng USEFUL out?
I'm just saying, the OP asked to compare
BM Hunter (what the OP obviously plays=bias)
Enh Shaman (what his friend obviously plays=bias)
any spec Rogue (what neither of them play but both continually see at the top of their meters=no bias)
Like I said, you know he doesn't play a rogue, otherwise he would've said Combat Rogue because that's the best representative for raid dps. Shadowstep rogues lose a lot of dps as do Hemo.
goodness..... I AM THE OP... and yes BM hunter (which is accepted as the dps spec of the class which is why it was used) and i am VERY unbiased. If Im beat Im beat and I would be the first to admit it.
friend? Holy Priest obviously could care less... not and enhance shammy. Why was Enhance chose then? Becasue its generally accepted to be the highest dps spec of the class
as for rogues? I play a Combat Swords rogue as well... not 70 no... do i know the ins and outs? no. So why not pic combat swords to compare... because ive seen all rogue specs do insane damage so to me it really doesnt matter. you say combat swords is the best ill find many that say and show otherwise.
fact is its hard to compare classes. Especially server to server. Like i said i have NEVER seen a rogue in eqal gear come close to beating a BM hunter on my server... and the reason im always given is becasue of threat. now with all that said... gomme some damn reason as to why Feint is a dps killer and keep in mind my LAST post... ANY threat reduction is better than NONE at all.
Post by
Lemma
ANY threat reduction is better than NONE at all.
Fine but at the expense of energy that could be used building combo points, no. Any raid setting will have a paladin or two and with Salvation and a decent tank, threat is rarely an issue. It usually only comes to play when the offtanks are required to build threat (like VR) and they aren't as good or geared. A well-timed vanish is awesome but using Feint for an emergency is okay but you would never use it in your regular rotation.
And shamans have threat reduction by the way: it's one of those air totems. Tranquil Air, I believe.
Post by
Qlix
I know shamans have Tranquil Air... i dont think i said they didnt... and honestly. I dont wouldnt put Enhance Shammies in the debate either but if you read the thread the debate started out between he and i... and its HIS opinion that they should be. I agree without the totems they wouldnt be going.
Post by
90985
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Qlix
Go look at spreadsheets if you want proof of Rogue's amazing ability to do damage..
who the #$%^ said rogues dont do amazing DPS? dont believe i did..... and on MY server... it is how it is... sorry if youre to narrow minded to accept that.
I'm sorry... I call BS on this. Screenshot of damage meters or it didn't happen.
eh... so sorry for your loss sadly i dont have any... i spend my time playing the game not looking at stills of it.
Post by
Celdhyrean
IN MY OPINION Feint is there for a reason... use the damn thing... otherwise explain to me how you could possible LOSE dps by using it. ANY threat reduction is better than NONE at all.Read my post on page 2, i already answered this.
since youre gonna sit there and are be a &*!@ about the post... throw somethng USEFUL out? Because I dont understand why a class would NOT use an ability that they have available to them to REDUCE THREAT and then say that they have threat issues and use that a reason why they could be out done by another class.
You are the one who told us that the rogues on your server blame their lack of dps on threat. Nobody here has said that. In fact, regarding threat, an intelligently played rogue has as little problems as a hunter WITHOUT having to resort to feint.
That's why feint is a stupid thing to have in a dps rotation. While you gain dps using it (in a treat capped situation, compared to just standing there), overall you lose tons of dps for putting yourself in that situation in the first place.
Post by
138850
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Lemma
The interuption may just be a few seconds but that adds up.
Go look at spreadsheets if you want proof of Rogue's amazing ability to do damage.. I mean why would a class be that popular if they couldn't pwn so hard?
If a rogue has to kick interrupts, his dps goes down considerably. It's 1sec GCD isn't a big deal but 25 energy messing up an entire rotation plus having to save at least 25 energy at all times (because you never know when the mob's heal is going to be cast) is hard to manage and sometimes caps your energy out.
Also remember the design flaw where Kick is on the GCD (as opposed to a Mage's Counterspell) so you can't go all out because 1sec cd is enough to miss an interrupt.
Post by
Lemma
and about your stupid post on the tranquil air totem.. how much do you really know about shammy's? obviously not enough, you say that shammies are their because of their totems, that you dont' see any other use for them.. so which totem do you ask for? let me guess
Grace of Air
..
I never said shamans are only their for their totems. I'm just saying if an enhancement shaman couldn't share totems, you would see their presence in raids fall dramatically.
By the way, every decent rogue prefers Windfury to Grace of Air.
Post by
Lemma
oh and check my sig, thats my only character above level 40 so don't accuse me of not being objective, it just seems that unlike some, i strive to have a knowledge of all classes instead of being so close minded as to think that my class is the top when it comes to what it does.
I'm sorry if I was condescending. It ultimately comes down to the individual player how well a certain class plays. And dps isn't the only factor to measure that gameplay.
But if you start a thread asking if an enh shaman, rogue, or bm hunter has the higher single-target dps, I'm assuming you mean equally experienced and equally geared players. Even if we strip the rogue and hunter of the shaman's totems (an unrealistic/stupid raid scenario and an impossible 5man scenario), the shaman will have lower dps... again for equal experience and gear.
Usually, when I read these threads I immediately think "raid bosses" and an enhancement shaman will NEVER be in a raid if he isn't giving his rogues Windfury. Some suck guilds may miss that or erroneously let the shaman drop Grace of Air, gimping the raid's dps, but still the shaman's dps will not compare.
Like I said, hunter or rogue.
Post by
Qlix
Exactly. I know shamans get butthurt about this but consider this... if you didn't have totems, do you think a raid would take you?
looks like you said theyre only there for their totems... but either way whether it be grace of air or windfury hes NEVER gonna drop tranquil air.
but it really doesnt matter and this thread has gone so far off topic its rediculous...
I really dont intend to spark a debate or a flame war i just would like to know if theres any way to test this in game?
Post by
Lemma
Exactly. I know shamans get butthurt about this but consider this... if you didn't have totems, do you think a raid would take you?
looks like you said theyre only there for their totems
Rogue: high dps
Enh Shaman: totems + mediocre dps
Enh Shaman without totems: mediocre dps
In other words, if a shaman didn't have totems, you'd take a rogue everytime. I know, I know... let's hear everyone's example of how this enh shaman owns and blah blah blah...
Remember!
equal gear
equal experience
Post by
Qlix
In other words, if a shaman didn't have totems, you'd take a rogue everytime
/agree
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