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10.2.5
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[Balance - PvE] Moonkin Guide Discussion Thread.
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Post by
340332
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Post by
asakawa
regarding the use of castsequence macros, using an important cooldown as soon as possible is obviously very useful but castsequence macros prevent spell queueing the rest of the time (when just spamming starfire after starfire for example) which would negate any benefit for competent players who are aware of the cooldown and able to react to it anyway.
they would still have a use for new/inexperienced players who are unable to monitor procs and cooldowns but for those players the macros don't help them to play better and probably promote bad habits.
Post by
curlymon
Guide is still valid until you reach lvl 81!
Small balancing to thorns. It makes sense though.
Post by
389643
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Post by
curlymon
Someone should mention the changes to our meta gem. Mostly the part that you're required to have more blue gems than red.
That bit is being reversed last I checked and this guide is still for LvL 80 Balance druids and will not be updated for 85 druids until Dec 7th.
Post by
434270
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Post by
195217
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Post by
340332
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Post by
curlymon
Starsurge (Why this first then wrath? Because if it proc's for instant cast you don't waste 2 casts of it).
Earth and Moon
It is not just a boost for yourself but a boost to the entire raids damage.
As for Wrath till Lunar vs SF til Solar... Ideally you start in one eclipse or the other and not at 0 energy. You also go for Lunar first as it gives you the best chance to fit extra Starfalls into a fight.
Post by
358688
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Post by
340332
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Post by
curlymon
Solar beam is absolutely necessary for the level of utility needed to do heroics.
CC IS needed. Nuking is a thing of the past.
Post by
Falkor
do treants still benefit from haste? just wondering b/c nobody corrected the guy 9 days ago when he said start with treants & i thought it was best to get a nature's grace proc, then cast them.
awaiting your lvl 85 guide to see how hit/spirit come out in stat weightings and other such things, in the mean time is there a sim or something to easily test your dps and see which stats come out ahead like there is for cats?
Post by
curlymon
They do benefit from haste, but Heroism/Bloodlust can be done before or after they come out and they will gain the benefit from it either way.
Post by
curlymon
Rewrote the entire thing just now... then lost all my work from a power outage.... FML... to be updated when I can stop wanting to choke something.
Post by
curlymon
Guide up!
Please take the time to review it.
Post by
340332
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Post by
oberondreaming
Genesis
- 3/3 - Required Talent. Increases Moonfire/Sunfire and Insect Swarm by 6 seconds or 3 extra ticks
at the same time it boost both by 6% damage
? On top of all of that DoTs are our single strongest spell if they run their full duration? Get it, love it.
The bolded portion is no longer accurate, is it? Genesis now states that increase the
healing
done by your periodic spells by 6% and increases the duration of our two DoTs. It says nothing about increasing the damage done by your periodic spells. Is this a case where the tooltip is just not accurate?
Moonkin Form
- 1/1 - Require Talent. 10% Damage boost, 120% Armor boost, 5% spell haste to the group/raid. This is just to strong to pass up. Plus the /dance is the best in the game!
You're missing a D on required.
Natural Shapeshifter
- 2/2 - Required Talent. Not so much requires for any boost itself, though it's not a bad perk, you will want 2 points in this to get the Master Shapeshifter Talent.
You've got an S instead of a D here.
Glyph of Innervate
- For boomkins tight on mana but find they need to Innervate the healers quite often.
How does Dreamstate interact with this glyph. Will it increase mana from the glyph if you innervate someone else? (Is it worth noting somewhere that people probably want to either plan to innervate themselves or plan to innervate a healer and glyph/spec accordingly.)
If you hit a heavy movement section of a fight and you still have Eclipse up and either DoT falls off, the DoT should be reapplied to gain the benefit of the Eclipse before casting your way out of the proc. Just to emphasize DoTs are stronger then nukes for us currently. They always take prio over a nuke while Eclipse is up.
With the new refreshing mechanics, isn't it inaccurate to talk about refreshing dots after they fall off? Or does Balance operate abnormally because of Eclipses. I know most other DoT classes now want to keep their DoTs going, never letting them actually fall off, since that results in lost ticks.
Either way, it seems like in your scenario (Eclipse still up, heavy movement) you'd want to refresh DoTs even if they're not close to falling off.
You might want to additionally discuss the effects
the new meta gem requirements
have on gemming and how to achieve it effectively. (Gem pure Hit/Spirit in enough blue slots to outnumber your pure Int gems, reforge excess hit/spirit from gear as needed.) Unless Balance isn't using that gem, I haven't actually read up on it much yet. (edit -- Oh, I see that's on the to-do list.)
Post by
340332
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Post by
curlymon
With current haste levels Im starting to wonder a bit about Starfall and GoSS. With the extended time it now takes to get from one eclipse into the next, Im convinced that with GoSS you end up loosing dps by waiting for a Lunar proc to use Starfall. Id suggest either using Starfall on cooldown with GoSS, or going for GoWrath instead and letting the natural cooldown take you into Lunar. Also, at 85 DoTs will no longer last from the begining of eclipse into the next and as such need to be refreshed as soon after they run out as possible. I have no maths to support whether or not they should be clipped at the start of eclipse or not but I would immagine this would be a dps loss.
Just food for thought.
It is worth thinking about yes, but the guys over at EJ still have info set as GoSS being optimal and GoW for infrequent or no SFall use in fights, so i guess we will have to see. A lot of what we see now will change once people get into the raids and the gearing from there should help push mana and haste concerns back a bit.
Genesis
- 3/3 - Required Talent. Increases Moonfire/Sunfire and Insect Swarm by 6 seconds or 3 extra ticks
at the same time it boost both by 6% damage
? On top of all of that DoTs are our single strongest spell if they run their full duration? Get it, love it.
The bolded portion is no longer accurate, is it? Genesis now states that increase the
healing
done by your periodic spells by 6% and increases the duration of our two DoTs. It says nothing about increasing the damage done by your periodic spells. Is this a case where the tooltip is just not accurate?
You are correct, I will clear that up.
Glyph of Innervate
- For boomkins tight on mana but find they need to Innervate the healers quite often.
How does Dreamstate interact with this glyph. Will it increase mana from the glyph if you innervate someone else? (Is it worth noting somewhere that people probably want to either plan to innervate themselves or plan to innervate a healer and glyph/spec accordingly.)
Maybe, I will look into this. I'm fairly sure I put that in there somewhere, but maybe some redundancy will be a good idea.
If you hit a heavy movement section of a fight and you still have Eclipse up and either DoT falls off, the DoT should be reapplied to gain the benefit of the Eclipse before casting your way out of the proc. Just to emphasize DoTs are stronger then nukes for us currently. They always take prio over a nuke while Eclipse is up.
With the new refreshing mechanics, isn't it inaccurate to talk about refreshing dots after they fall off? Or does Balance operate abnormally because of Eclipses. I know most other DoT classes now want to keep their DoTs going, never letting them actually fall off, since that results in lost ticks.
Either way, it seems like in your scenario (Eclipse still up, heavy movement) you'd want to refresh DoTs even if they're not close to falling off.
As per Les's observations with Haste it is indeed worth refreshing DoTs any time they are about to fall off. DoTs do operate in the way you described I was just rewriting whole sections of the guide and this fell through the cracks.
You might want to additionally discuss the effects
the new meta gem requirements
have on gemming and how to achieve it effectively. (Gem pure Hit/Spirit in enough blue slots to outnumber your pure Int gems, reforge excess hit/spirit from gear as needed.) Unless Balance isn't using that gem, I haven't actually read up on it much yet. (edit -- Oh, I see that's on the to-do list.)
I'm hoping the Devs reverse it fairly shortly here as the optimal gemming is far more complicated with more Blue then Red. *shudders at the number of green gems needed*
If it is not reversed by this next Tuesday I will have a step by step guide.
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