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Gearscore haters unite!
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Post by
DarkOpeth
(subjective opinion)(no one is forcing you to read this, or to participate, you're the one that clicked on the thread link, you need only to hit the "back" button. kthxbye.) :D
Anyways, GearScore has been argued to be a valid, properly-usable tool to help aid in player selection, and it has also been argued that it ruined the game... I take the latter position.
Blizzard has taken the worst thing to happen to wow, and made it a standard,
BASELINE
game feature. Fail, fail, fail! I think this will only enable more players to snobbishly discriminate.
I brought my hunter friend into ICC10 the other day. He has a gearscore of 4.8k. Had I not intervened, the leader would have removed him from the run immediately.. I asked the RL to give my friend a chance to prove himself. In the end, he ended up pulling 7.6k Dps... overtaking both a rogue and a warlock who had 500 or so more GS points than he did. Player skill made the difference.
I assume those supporting GS would make the following argument: "it is not a be-all end-all solution to determine player worthiness... it only says that if someone has under a certain amount of GS, they are less likely to pull equal/better dps than a player who has several hundred points more...."
The problem is, while that may help get rid of some players, you are undoubtedly skipping over undegeared players that CAN however, pull their weight and contribute to the groups' sucess. Not that ILvL measurements are to be implemented in Cataclysm, I feel that many more players will kick these other players out, simply for having "that one blue" or not being "in good enough gear"
This leaves that small, but definitely present, contingent of undergeared players from getting into runs and enjoying the game... Not all people have time to raid, farm heroics for well-fare tier, but im sure they would like to see the new content at least once in person, blizzard even put in a 30% buff to help compensate for gear deficiencies so they can get into runs and enjoy the awesome content.
I understand that this has been argued and re-argued ad nauseam,
like i said, read the parentheses above
.. but I wanted your take on it, now that Blizzars is planning to add it into the game as a baseline feature...
Post by
sutasafaia
Stupid people will continue to use valid tools stupidly. Not much else you can say about that one.
Post by
Pwntiff
GearScore is not the worst thing to happen to WoW, and it will not be a default in-game feature. Average Item Level != GearScore. Yes, this topic has been argued ad nauseum, and all of them descend to the deepest depths of flamedom. That's why there's a sort of moratorium on GS threads.
GearScore is not a be-all end-all, and no raid leader worth his salt will say that. GS is honestly no different than asking for a DPS minimum, or kicking a player you feel is undergeared from a /inspect.
My take on the whole issue? GearScore is not good. GearScore is not bad. GearScore is a tool and therefore amoral. Just like "Guns don't kill people," GearScore does not prevent people from entering raids.
Post by
Toldu
Blizzard has taken the worst thing to happen to wow, and made it a standard, BASELINE game feature.Did I miss something?
Post by
Pwntiff
Quoting someone who didn't see the "DUPLICATE THREAD" in the other title:
When creating a group for a dungeon or raid, there are certain factors that must be taken into account to ensure success of your group which are:
Having tanks, healers and DPS
Having players who know the encounters
Having players who know their role/class
Having players who have sufficient gear to be viable for the encounter
Unless you know the people who you are grouping with, you don't really know if a player is good or not. Having someone in complete ilvl200 gear do an ICC dungeon will not be wise. Gearscore just lets you know if a player has high-level items suitable for an encounter **(if itemized correctly, ie: all PvE gear if you are raiding, or all PvP gear if you are doing arena). If you want to avoid discrimination due to your bad gear then join a guild in which people will know you are good if you are good. Gearscore works in your favor if your gear is good anyways. If you are a bad player hiding in bad gear, word will probably spread and less and less people will group with you, but in reality, if you are in great gear, you must have either been carried super hard by other good players, or at least be some-what decent yourself. At the end of the day, you cant be in all ilvl200 equipment expecting to be useful in Tier10 content. Of course there are bad people with relatively higher gearscores, but a good player with a significantly higher gearscore than another good player will almost always perform better.
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
571303
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
buzz3070
I thought any topic regarding gearscore has been beaten to death already. Also im with toldu did i miss something with blizz making gs a feature in cata?
Post by
292516
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Liquoid
Average iLevel > GearScore anyway.
Direct correlation is direct.
Average iLevel doesn't account for Greens vs. Blues vs. Epics (fully green geared with avg. ilvl4000 compared to fully epic with avg. ilvl400).
Gearscore does account for that.
Therefore, in that context, you're wrong.
Post by
632573
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Sondrizzle
Average iLevel doesn't account for Greens vs. Blues vs. Epics (fully green geared with avg. ilvl4000 compared to fully epic with avg. ilvl400).
Gearscore does account for that.
Therefore, in that context, you're wrong.
Wait, what? Green gear has a ilvl of 187 and below and blue (rare) gear has a ilvl of 200 and below while epics are everything over ilvl 200 in Wrath of the Lich King. I don't see why that trend shouldn't continue in Cataclysm, where the ilvl goes from Green > Rare > Epic to differentiate the gear like today.
Post by
292516
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
irishsnout
I'm a little confused. ilevel has been around for a while. WoW-heroes, beimba and wowhead, (not sure of other sites like elitistjerks) use this (ilevel) to generate a gearscore. Then they recommend what content you should be running for upgrades. So the gearscore addon does it in game so a raid leader can quickly check a player. Then once you make the team, I assume the RL will inspect and check armory or other sites previously listed. And this is the worst thing to ever happen to wow?
Ok lets just say you go and apply for a job. To save time applicants must have an associates degree. Sorry, not saying people with G.E.D.s are not smart, but you are probably gonna have to know someone to bypass the minimum qualified applicants. Now lets say that a job opening requires a master's degree. Even though its an easy job and no way you need that level of education to do it. A piece of paper from college does not make you smart. It does set a standard of accomplishment. Sorta like gear score and trying to get into a raid.
just my 2 copper on GS. oh and 5k gs is way possible without stepping into TOC and ICC.
Post by
78077
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Reallyape
Blizzard already have a system in place that they should use more often and completely invalidate Gearscore (an addon which should be banned IMO).
Basically, when using the LFD, make sure that the player has a hidden collective item value that exceeds what is necessary to run the instance.
This is already in place for Halls of Reflection - you cannot random that instance without a certain caliber of gear.
All Blizzard have to do is implement that system to raids as well and ban Gearscore. The idiots who use Gearscore wouldn't be able to argue you were "too low" to raid it as it would already be predetermined by Blizzard that the gear was sufficient standard. Conversely, you won't have undergeared people appearing in the raid.
That wouldn't stop idiots and scrubs who, through this very system, got their hands on good gear while doing really badly in said raid. Personally, I'll stick with Gearscore.
Basically, it'd mean that natural raid progression is restored and players aren't alienated by utterly ridiculous GS demands for pugs in trade chat.
EDIT: Irishsnout, people aren't saying that players decked in greens and blues should be allowed to pug ICC without impediment. What people are saying is that GS is allowing morons in trade chat to make ridiculously high GS demands for content that doesn't need that gear requirement. It means that an extremely skilled player with 5k GS will be thrown aside, and a player with 5.4k GS who is a complete idiot is preferred. That's the problem.
The only morons I could see doing that are the ones I mentionned above, those who actually do bad but got in through GS. They need other people to have good GS because they probably realise that they suck even though theirs is good.Stupid people will continue to use valid tools stupidly. Not much else you can say about that one.
^This.
Post by
woohaa
EDIT: Irishsnout, people aren't saying that players decked in greens and blues should be allowed to pug ICC without impediment. What people are saying is that GS is allowing morons in trade chat to make ridiculously high GS demands for content that doesn't need that gear requirement. It means that an extremely skilled player with 5k GS will be thrown aside, and a player with 5.4k GS who is a complete idiot is preferred. That's the problem.
This...
Although in defense...people asking you for your achievement is pretty bad too. You could farm heroics and ICC5mans and get a 5K GS, even if you've researched every encounter, sat and watched your brother do it over and over again, or watched videos till your eyes bleed. You can't get in because you don't have the damn achievement....
Post by
Liquoid
All I'm saying is that average ilvl allows for even a worse estimation of character's than Gearscore. Interpret it as you wish.
I'm not implying that Gearscore gives a good estimation either, mind you.
Post by
irishsnout
Well take what I say with a grain of salt. I agree with some of what the OP stated. A RL who checks gear score and only that could have a setup for failure. But on the other side, If the raid group is experienced and wants more of a farm run, why can't they set standards?
Post by
Varaconn
Average iLevel > GearScore anyway.
Direct correlation is direct.
Average iLevel doesn't account for Greens vs. Blues vs. Epics (fully green geared with avg. ilvl4000 compared to fully epic with avg. ilvl400).
Gearscore does account for that.
Therefore, in that context, you're wrong.
It's hard to argue with ilvl 4000 greens.
As far as I'm aware, the highest current ilvl green on live is 182 (and the highest ilvl at all is 284). Therefore the highest
AVERAGE
ilvl of full greens would be 182 (assuming you can equip a 182 green in each slot). This would also amount to a gearscore of ~2.5k.
An average ilvl of 264+ would have a gearscore rating of ~6000.
Average Item Level
|
Gear Score
182 | 2500
245 | 5100
264+ | 6000+
Does that not prove a direct correlation?
An ilvl 200 Epic is better than an ilvl 200 blue. That's what Liquoid means. (I think.)
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