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Gearscore haters unite!
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Post by
Hyperspacerebel
"if I deny otherwise capable candidates because of an arbitrary number, it will make my raid better"
Wrong.
Try again.
Post by
161859
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rilgon
"if I deny otherwise capable candidates because of an arbitrary number, it will make my raid better"
Wrong.
Try again.
That's your entire argument.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
"if I deny otherwise capable candidates because of an arbitrary number, it will make my raid better"
Wrong.
Try again.
That's your entire argument.
No, that's your entire straw-man for my argument.
Try again.
Post by
Agoraphobic
Anyone ever see the Louis C.K. skit "Why?" If not, Youtube it. This discussion is spiraling towards that one very quickly.
P.S. My friend has a main hunter, with ~5k gear score. He has won rolls on pieces of cloth, leather and useless mail for him that he wears when someone does a GS check. It puts him around 5.5k, thus "allowing" him to raid, even though he puts his other gear back on and does as much dps as the guy in 6k crap.
Flawed system is flawed.
Post by
Rilgon
Anyone ever see the Louis C.K. skit "Why?" If not, Youtube it. This discussion is spiraling towards that one very quickly.
P.S. My friend has a main hunter, with ~5k gear score. He has won rolls on pieces of cloth, leather and useless mail for him that he wears when someone does a GS check. It puts him around 5.5k, thus "allowing" him to raid, even though he puts his other gear back on and does as much dps as the guy in 6k crap.
Flawed system is flawed.
BUT BUT THE NUMBER IS THE ALL-ENCOMPASSING BAROMETER OF YOUR SKILL, THE GUY WHO MADE IT SAYS SO
Post by
lonewarrior
Gearscore would tell me that Herkuml War Token is better than Darkmoon Card: Greatness. That is not accurate in any setting.
This then is a fault of Blizz for not itemizing a piece of gear accurately. There are many such examples. It is even possible to create a GS type addon that doesn't use the item level as a foundation of it's formula. The author does ask for feedback...so maybe your information should be passed along to make GS more accurate.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
I never actually stopped to analyze how flawed some of the arguments here are. It's sad but also extremely hilarious. Logic should be required in Middle School.
Post by
Agoraphobic
I never actually stopped to analyze how flawed some of the arguments here are. It's sad but also extremely hilarious. Logic should be required in Middle School.
Would that be before or after Elitist, and do you have to pass !@#$%^baggery in grade school first to take the advanced course?
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
I never actually stopped to analyze how flawed some of the arguments here are. It's sad but also extremely hilarious. Logic should be required in Middle School.
Would that be before or after Elitist, and do you have to pass !@#$%^baggery in grade school first to take the advanced course?
I wouldn't call it elitist to actually be making logical arguments. Anyone who considers their own logically flawed arguments as sound just because they say so -- those are the elitists.
Post by
lonewarrior
I never actually stopped to analyze how flawed some of the arguments here are. It's sad but also extremely hilarious. Logic should be required in Middle School.
Did you take logic in middle school..?
Post by
Agoraphobic
I never actually stopped to analyze how flawed some of the arguments here are. It's sad but also extremely hilarious. Logic should be required in Middle School.
Would that be before or after Elitist, and do you have to pass !@#$%^baggery in grade school first to take the advanced course?
I wouldn't call it elitist to actually be making logical arguments. Anyone who considers their own logically flawed arguments as sound just because they say so -- those are the elitists.
So even with the proof that you can equip gear that has absolutely no benefits to your class to get into a raid because of the gear score factor (and not whether or not the gear is actually worth it to wear), his point that GS means absolutely nothing is invalid? Hm. Looks like someone needs to rethink their "logic."
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
I never actually stopped to analyze how flawed some of the arguments here are. It's sad but also extremely hilarious. Logic should be required in Middle School.
Did you take logic in middle school..?
8th grade, yes. But I went to a private boarding school.
So even with the proof that you can equip gear that has absolutely no benefits to your class to get into a raid because of the gear score factor (and not whether or not the gear is actually worth it to wear), his point that GS means absolutely nothing is invalid? Hm. Looks like someone needs to rethink their "logic."
That's what's known as an
Ignoratio Elenchi
Fallacy -- arguing something that is irrelevant to the issue in question.
Post by
lonewarrior
I never actually stopped to analyze how flawed some of the arguments here are. It's sad but also extremely hilarious. Logic should be required in Middle School.
Did you take logic in middle school..?
8th grade, yes. But I went to a private boarding school.
Was your teacher Mr. Spock..?
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Was your teacher Mr. Spock..?
Mr. O'Hara... /shudder
Think Spock, but 10x more Vulcan.
Post by
Kalisha
I think you misinterpreted what I said....
prior to Wrath if someone came looking to pug into a raid(i.e. Black Temple) a look at that persons gear would immediately tell you if they had a degree of success or not raiding, since the only way back then to acquire enough gear was through the lower raids.
I understand what you're saying, I just don't agree. Having gear from a previous raid has never been an indicator of whether or not the person put in the work to get said gear. People have been getting carried through raids for as long as we've been raiding, that's just the nature of the beast. You could spend 90% of the fight face down at the boss's feet, or auto-following a healer, and still collect the loot at the end. Just because people have zoned into the instance does not mean they understand any of the mechanics or are in any way capable.
Anyway, I think we're getting off on a tangent. The point I was trying to make is that people were judged before Gearscore was even a twinkle in its author's eye. Sometimes it was a fair assessment, many times not. Even if the addon disappeared completely today, people would still be judged and summarily rejected from raids, no matter how deserving they may think they are.
I'm not even weighing in on whether Gearscore is good or bad. I just don't think it's the problem that many think it is - all it does is give a face to something that has been there all along.
Post by
lonewarrior
Was your teacher Mr. Spock..?
Mr. O'Hara... /shudder
Think Spock, but 10x more Vulcan.
ugh...
wasn't T-pauls maiden name O'hara...hmmmm
Post by
Rilgon
So even with the proof that you can equip gear that has absolutely no benefits to your class to get into a raid because of the gear score factor (and not whether or not the gear is actually worth it to wear), his point that GS means absolutely nothing is invalid? Hm. Looks like someone needs to rethink their "logic."
That's what's known as an
Ignoratio Elenchi
Fallacy -- arguing something that is irrelevant to the issue in question.
The issue in question, as you phrase it, is "enforcing minimum GS standards will improve the quality of my runs".
The fact that there are a multitude of examples of net GS gains negatively impacting performance is directly related to that. A DPSer whose DPS is lower than expected because of equipping bad gear with high item level is directly related to the quality of your runs. Turning away players with quality gear that boosts their DPS but is low item level (and thusly low gearscore) harms the potential of your raids, as you are so focused on an arbitrary summing of item levels to actually evaluate gearing (not to mention gemming, enchanting, proper talent builds, etc).
In short, it's entirely relevant and you're backpedaling harder than a career politician.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
The issue in question, as you phrase it, is "enforcing minimum GS standards will improve the quality of my runs".
The fact that there are a multitude of examples of net GS gains negatively impacting performance is directly related to that. A DPSer whose DPS is lower than expected because of equipping bad gear with high item level is directly related to the quality of your runs. Turning away players with quality gear that boosts their DPS but is low item level (and thusly low gearscore) harms the potential of your raids, as you are so focused on an arbitrary summing of item levels to actually evaluate gearing (not to mention gemming, enchanting, proper talent builds, etc).
In short, it's entirely relevant and you're backpedaling harder than a career politician.
You're using individual cases to disprove a general statement.
It's like me saying that running once a day improves your health, and you countering that by saying you know 3 guys that went out running and all collapsed of heat stroke, therefore running once a day does not improve your health.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Anyways, I'd love to continue to point out your fallacies all day, but I need to eat lunch then get some work done.
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