This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Live
PTR
10.2.7
PTR
10.2.6
Beta
Gearscore haters unite!
Return to board index
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Gearscore isn't controversial because people are using it to exclude blue-geared players. It costs me no time to exclude someone I can see isn't geared enough.
This argument about GS preventing blue geared players from joining up is strawman. The mod doesn't used that way. It's like the Feds trashing a bong shop then being told they were in the wrong because the bongs could potentially be used in ways they never are, that happen to not be illegal. It's specious and self-serving, but unlike the Feds, people don't need proof beyond a reasonable doubt to grasp what is eminently apparent.
I use it to prevent blue geared players. Your straw-man is a straw-man.
Arguing against a certain use cannot be spontaneously translated into proof that the addon shouldn't exist.
Post by
93865
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
44284
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Why don't you just look at HP?
Because HP isn't constant?
What Gearscore do you require, and what content do you pug?
4800 for my ICC 10s if I don't know the person.
5000 for my 25s if I don't know the person.
I haven't found a good minimum for RS yet.
I encourage people who think they can do well enough but don't have the GS to join my guild (or some other guild I'm close with) run some heroics with me so I can get to know them and their style.
Post by
93865
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
93865
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
44284
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Pwntiff
Damn, my selective vision ran out...
You are trying to compare using GS before the raid to using DPS/Damage Done during the raid. You don't know how well a random person will perform prior to the raid starting, but you can tell how well he should be able to perform based on his gear.
Not sure why I'm bothering because it's obvious you either don't realize or don't care that the devil's advocates in this thread properly use GS.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
What avg iLvL is 4.8k/5k, and how far do you go?
~5000 GS = ilvl 232
4800 GS would come out to probably ilvl 228ish, but I haven't done the math.
As far as we can in a one night PuG. Anywhere from 9/12 to LK.
Why should players join your guild?
What sort of meaningless question is that?
Post by
161859
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Pwntiff
I'm surprised the
admins
mods haven't locked this useless thread yet. They must have fallen alseep.
It's strange because one of them had to have moved it from Cataclysm...
Post by
lonewarrior
I'm surprised the admins haven't locked this useless thread yet. They must have fallen alseep.
it's not useless...some people maybe new to the argument and it also doesn't hurt to re-evaluate and update a known subject.
Besides...seriously ..how many different subjects to discuss, do you think exist in this game.
Everyone of any relevance has been rehashed a zillion times.
Would you prefer we start a new thread on why Dalaran streets aren't covered with poop with all the mounts in it, just for originality.
Post by
93865
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
xaratherus
Individual inspections are what a competent raid leader uses.
I'd kind of like a robot butler, but until they invent one, I'll be doing my own dishes. Until something is develped that is in any way not fully redundant with competent human judgment, competent raid leaders will do individual inspections.
Using Gearscore to potentially save a few minutes on setting up an ICC run - by revealing that no, I
don't
need you to hearth back to Dalaran because we don't want to carry someone with a GS of 3k - is a sign of competence.
Using Gearscore as the be-all, end-all of judgment, failing to inspect the person's gear - and then realizing that your 6k GS Warrior is wearing nothing but spell plate - is a sign of incompetence.
Arguing that use of a tool makes you incompetent by default is patently ridiculous. Misuse of a tool, or use of a tool to the exclusion of all else - that's incompetent.
Gearscore isn't controversial because people are using it to exclude blue-geared players. It costs me no time to exclude someone I can see isn't geared enough.
Save the time that it takes for the person to get to you, from wherever they are - or the time that it takes to alt+tab and look them up on an Armory site. Which is some time - so yes, it does save you time.
This argument about GS preventing blue geared players from joining up is strawman. The mod doesn't get used that way.
And yet again you propose your opinion as fact, which is the reason why you've actually become a meme in the WoW subculture.
I have seen GS used the exact way I mentioned it - which is
why
I mentioned it.
Post by
93865
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
78077
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
44284
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Poremm
I've not read the responses before mine, I just wanted to say.
Gearscore is a tool, like a screwdriver.
A screwdriver can be used to build things, and it also makes for a nifty stabbing device, say... to hurt people.
Tools can be used well or misused.
The decision is up to you to whether you want to use it or not, but surely a gearscore free world would have another tool that could also be misused.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
And yet people pugged all that, and more, with no buff, and the same gear. So by your own account, you set gear requirements in excess of what is required by the content.
I set gear requirement
based on my experience with the player base
. So in fact your claim that "people pugged all that" is irrelevant.
A
PuG might have done it,
many
PuGs might have done it, but it's still irrelevant. I run my raids so we don't have to gamble. And based on my experience with PuGed players, I have come to find that the 4800 mark is the mark at which a marked increase of performance can be seen in people I've PuGed.
Let me point out your fallacies, since you seemed so ready to point out someone else's straw-man.
1) Straw-man
"If your intent was - as you stated - to
simply
exclude blue geared players..."
I never said that was my only reason. I posited it as
a
reason, yes. So any conclusion you draw from the above premise is irrelevant to me or my argument.
2)
Ignoratio Elenchi
"So by your own account, you set gear requirements in excess of what is required by the content."
Here you prove a conclusion that is in fact irrelevant my claim. No one is concerned with what the absolute floor is as far is gear -- except you apparently. Sure it's an interesting thought experiment, but it has little to no practical value. The claim being made is that
setting a minimum GS gives a higher success rate to a PuG
.
3) Hyperbole
"...stratospheric requirements"
Setting the required gear level exactly one tier below what we will be farming is not "stratospheric" by any stretch of the imagination. Blizzard's been doing that for years. Couple that with the fact that you can farm 4800 GS in a matter of weeks, your rhetorical exaggeration really holds no water.
4) Special Case Fallacy
"Paragon managed to kill heroic LK25 with zero buff, using the same gear all heroic ICC farming guilds have available. With this same gear, many guilds still cannot complete ToGC25 or Algalon-25 even though those were done in 226/232 gear. "
This also ties in with the
Ignoratio Elenchi
discussed above. Arguing from a particular cases to a general conclusion is not logic.
There's a second logical problem with this quote, but I don't know of a technical name for it. The problem is that we're discussion PuGs, and you use guilds as your examples.
So, you see, your biggest problem seems to be that you don't understand the opposing argument, because you keep bringing in irrelevant premises and drawing irrelevant conclusions.
Well, you have great confidence in those you raid with.
Do I? I don't remember saying that. I'm glad you've got my in-game psychoanalysis covered.
I do have great confidence in those people whom I know and raid with. But, what makes a PuG a PuG is the fact that I don't know most of the people. So, I can't really say much in way of whether I have confidence. I usually suspend judgments like that until I have enough evidence in front of me.
So why would others want to join your guild?
What does that have to do with my confidence in people?
Why do people join my guild? I dunno, they think I'm a nice guy. They like the people in the guild and want to raid with them on a regular basis. They want to get to know me. They like the name. They want 5 bank tabs and a tabard.
Those are really the only reasons I can think of. Maybe there are others, maybe there aren't. But it's still completely irrelevant to anything in this discussion.
Post by
Liquoid
Dyslexics untie!
Post Reply
This topic is locked. You cannot post a reply.