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Have LFD Make You Do All the Bosses
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Post by
Zamfix
Its not our fault Blizzard made it so raiders have to do a heroic each to get the maximum amount of frost emblems weekly.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Its not our fault Blizzard made it so raiders have to do a heroic each to get the maximum amount of frost emblems weekly.
It's not our fault Blizzard keeps updating heroic badges to make heroic farming viable so late in the game.
It works both ways.
The triumph farmer is no more right than the frost farmer.
Post by
386025
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Azrile
Just to point out a few things
1. Triumph emblems are useless to most people now. And to the people that think they will be worth anything in 4.01.... let me remind you that you are going off of their very first 'pass' of the conversions of a beta. There is no way they are going to convert it that way. Even still, most people will be maxed out without the triumph badges
2. If your 'first' group skips bosses, just queue again. You actually get bonus triumph badges for doing the second random heroic, which makes up for what you lost by not killing bosses
3. Roll a tank... I'm sorry, but dime-a-dozen dps who are UNDERGEARED are not in any position to dictate to the other 4 people that they should spend and extra 5 minutes to get you badges. More than likely if they are skipping bosses and you 'need' the badges, then you are probably pulling less DPS than the other 2 dps (and probably the tank too). In which case, the speed that they are getting you through the dungeon is much faster than if 'everyone' was like you.
TLDR: Undergeared DPS should just shut up and be grateful that you are getting carried. requeue if you reallly want more badges.
Post by
lonewarrior
You can walk both sides of the fence here and be right...it's just the nature of the game.
Progression plays its part. You wouldn't complain that players 25 ICC geared don't bother to do 25 TOC runs. Yet you at your level could still use the gear. Same goes for dungeon runs. Many players have progressed beyond the need to do all the bosses for emblems.
It sucks waiting for a 10 minute que and then not being able to get an extra couple of minutes out of your group and needing to que for another 10 minutes..but what can you do at the moment..you are on the lower rung of gear progression...you pay the price for it in LFD...same way a level 60 pays the price when getting ganked by a level 80..this whole game is about where you are progression wise.
One way I solved that when I was leveling an alt was to keep a group together when they were similar to my gear level. Sometimes you get a good LFD group where everyone needs triumph emblems...speak up and request if they want to keep together through other dungeons...most times it works. On some occasions I'd managed to get at least 3-5 additional complete dungeon runs.
Post by
Vaeku
It's useful to paint the opposition as some kind of heartless monster, isn't it?
I wasn't saying you were a heartless monster. I was pointing out that you were being contradictory.
I also have a DPS set and took the advice of others to tank for heroics.
Yes, I took the advice of others and tried tanking normal groups, at lower levels, but I wasn't good at it (nor did I like it).
DFire, you pretty much lose all credibility when you say you've tried tanking but didn't like it, because that now means you're talking from a DPS standpoint, and the one you're trying to smear is talking from a tank standpoint. You also proved why we are able to act the way we do, because the end result is that we're good at it, and you're not. You said so yourself that you are bad at tanking, and us, being tanks, are at least competent at it. Therefore, why should your points against Apodictic even be recognized?
At least I was upfront about the fact that I did not like tanking and wasn't good at it.
And just because you're good at tanking doesn't give you the right to act like a pompous jerk to the other people in your group.
I also have to point out to those that say that you don't do the optional bosses because you don't have time are full of !@#$. If you didn't have time, why did you queue? You could have gotten an instance where there are no optional bosses and takes a long time to do (as long as if you did the optional bosses).
Post by
Tarudizer
Im gonna jump in here too.
I've played foooor... what, 5 years? A hella long time anyway, and I've met ALL kinds of people (and at all ages). The tank who thinks he owns the world and never ask if someone wants a specific boss killed for gear/emblems/whatever you come up with, the tank who never asks BUT if someone asks him to stop to kill a boss he might do so or give a valid reason why not to, the tank who does ask, the DPS that start attacking the boss because he feels like he should call the shots just because it says "Party Leader" in front of his name in chat, *insert any role here* that says as we start "I dont have a lot of time, can we please do this quickly?", or just logs off at a random point and completely ignores the 4 other people in their party.... anything.
Now, I'm not a religious man, but the phrase "Do unto others, as you wish others do unto you" is very, very important. (I dont care if its spelled wrong, its the principle thats important.)
Hence, I always ask if someone needs a certain boss for whatever reason (even if Im not tanking), or ask if I could use the badges/gear from one. Why? Because Im not playing with a bunch of boody robots, they are people and I intend to treat them as such. Rampaging through an instance with 2-3 party members with 7k dps and what not is all well and good, that gives you extra time to do another one. But you could ask yourself, when its going that insanely fast, how long does it take to kill that one extra boss? Its just a decent thing to do for the other players in your group that might need them. Your not always the only one on the clock, they may not have that long time to play either. I started when I was 14-15 ish, and how many times Ive had to go because my mom needed my help/had made dinner/etc since them is beyond me. And thats only one reason.
With 11-12ish million players, you are BOUND to meet all sorts of strange people. The 12 year old who "spaek werid lUlz!", or the 30 year old for that matter. And some of those players, while yes they are playing an MMO, dont have much time to either do instances or raids. There are TONS of these people. Litteraly. So raging because someone tries to hurry through an instance because the poor guy has 3 jobs, 2 ex-wives and 4 children with each of them, and just wants to sort of relax just a little bit wont help you at all. That kind of attitude is crap, and people like that dont even deserve to be in the group. Im sure they would grow and turn red and ragequit because of a wipe and go punch the walls. Fine, go drink your salty tears, but then you should NOT be playing a game that is this social, or atleast learn to freaking relax. Dont play this game to stress yourself or others out, thats bullox.
Post by
Tarudizer
The OP said something that to me, was quite interesting. Doing every single boss before being able to complete the instance. I cant BELIEVE Blizzard didnt implement that at the beginning. I would call it a design flaw when people start running past bosses because "they don't need to". As I said in my previous post, some people really just dont have time for it (and in this case, dont need to do all the bosses) and they should not be punished for not having that amount of time on their hands. Looking for a specific dungeon (again for whatever reason, too little time, dont need all the bosses, want the gear, etc) should award you with the same as looking for random dungeon, just... less.
Post by
wolfeyoung
Here's a question.
The attitude people have in heroics, would you hold the same in a raid?
If the majority wanted to kill boss x, would you the tank/tanks, say "no, suck it up, I haven't time." When in a raid, do you tanks out there hold the attitude that dps really aren't needed so there's no point in listening to them? Of course not, it's a raid. The tanks role is pointless without good dps.
It's rumored that dungeons are going to need cc again in cata. Maybe it is part of this attitude of tanks and others downplaying the roles of certain classes (apodictic said he does). With a jerk tank in cata, dps dropping could be bad, especially if the dps knows what they're doing. Yes, the mage can be replaced in 2 seconds, but will you get one that knows how to cc properly?
Post by
Apodictic
Here's a question.
The attitude people have in heroics, would you hold the same in a raid?
If the majority wanted to kill boss x, would you the tank/tanks, say "no, suck it up, I haven't time." When in a raid, do you tanks out there hold the attitude that dps really aren't needed so there's no point in listening to them? Of course not, it's a raid. The tanks role is pointless without good dps.
The raid bosses are required to reach the end. The raid bosses (in raids that really matter) drop frost. Each role is dependent upon the others in a raid. Your role is as pointless as ours in raids: not at all.
The argument was on heroics. Raids have an entirely different environment.
It's rumored that dungeons are going to need cc again in cata. Maybe it is part of this attitude of tanks and others downplaying the roles of certain classes (apodictic said he does). With a jerk tank in cata, dps dropping could be bad, especially if the dps knows what they're doing. Yes, the mage can be replaced in 2 seconds, but will you get one that knows how to cc properly?
Who says that first DPS knows how to CC properly? You're assuming good on one side and bad on the other.
It will not always be that way
.
Edit: And I downplay the role of the undergeared DPS trying to manipulate my path. I DPS heroics occasionally. Normally when there's a friend available to queue with. ;)
Post by
495454
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Post by
242523
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Post by
610655
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Post by
xaratherus
They could resolve this issue by splitting LFD into two queues (similar to how they do the 'regular' and 'twink' BG queues ): Have a checkbox on the heroic LFD that says something like "Experienced"; if checked, then LFD functions as it does now; if unchecked, then it assumes you're there to farm gear/emblems, and requires that you do all the bosses in order to get the extra LFD reward.
Post by
Interest
Time to pull out the Wowcrendor...
"Hey can we do the optional bosses? It'll only take 5 minutes."
"5 minutes? 5 minutes! That's the time I could be spending riding around Dalaran on my Celestial Horse mount! . . .
"
Really though, I couldn't give half a $%^&.
Why? All bosses in Cata 5-mans are going to be virtually mandatory.
Post by
chowderman
They could resolve this issue by splitting LFD into two queues (similar to how they do the 'regular' and 'twink' BG queues ): Have a checkbox on the heroic LFD that says something like "Experienced"; if checked, then LFD functions as it does now; if unchecked, then it assumes you're there to farm gear/emblems, and requires that you do all the bosses in order to get the extra LFD reward.
Thats not a bad idea except for one thing...jack-monkey-turkey-butt-llama-licking-poop-chickens hitting that box trying to get carried.
Post by
xaratherus
They could resolve this issue by splitting LFD into two queues (similar to how they do the 'regular' and 'twink' BG queues ): Have a checkbox on the heroic LFD that says something like "Experienced"; if checked, then LFD functions as it does now; if unchecked, then it assumes you're there to farm gear/emblems, and requires that you do all the bosses in order to get the extra LFD reward.
Thats not a bad idea except for one thing...jack-monkey-turkey-butt-llama-licking-poop-chickens hitting that box trying to get carried.
Increase the gear requirements to select it then. The dungeons currently have minimum iLvl gear requirements; make the "Experienced" queue requirements greater than if the box was not selected.
Granted, that won't stop people with the gear still signing up to be carried - but that isn't the complaint being made here.
My understanding is that in Cata, it won't make that huge a difference, because even the regular dungeons are quite a bit more challenging.
Post by
2259
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Pwntiff
My understanding is that in Cata, it won't make that huge a difference, because even the regular dungeons are quite a bit more challenging.
I also believe, if I understood them correctly, that Cata dungeons will also be more-or-less gated. Fewer opportunities to skip bosses.
Post by
581897
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