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Resto in Cataclysm: My thoughts so far...
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Post by
razzem
Genesis and Furor do 2 different things. If you need the mana you'll get more out of Furor; if you don't need the mana you'll get more out of Genesis. It also depends on how much you use HoTs vs. direct heals (whether or not it benefits the initial cast of RG will matter, too).
Oh yeah, I am well aware of that. But I think that over the course of a boss fight, 4% more healing from your hots is going to do more for you than 10% total mana. I'm talking about it from a "per talent point, what gives me more effect" viewpoint.
Post by
340332
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Post by
razzem
Problem is, if you dont have mana, you cant cast. Your spells may hit very slightly harder, but if you cant cast them for any significant amount of time, then who cares? Mana management is going to be an issue. Whether you like it or not.
Right, and I disagree that 10% total mana will give you mana regen to make up for a 4% spellpower increase to all HoTs and swiftmend. 10% mana isn't going to give you that much regen, compared to how much more total healing 4% spellpower on your hots will give you. Per talent point, Genesis will give you much more bang for your buck. It's not like you have to take every single mana talent out there, friend, "whether you like it or not". Furor is not a game-breaking talent.
Again, my opinion, you're free to choose what you like.
Post by
404185
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Post by
curlymon
4% more healing or 10% more healing spells cast. I'm for more mana.
Say you can cast 100 spells at 10k heal each.
100 * 10,000 = 1,000,000
4% more healing
100 * 10,400 = 1,040,000
10% more spells castable
110 * 10,000 = 1,100,000
10% more mana is 5.8% more healing in the end.
Post by
404185
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Post by
340332
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404185
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Post by
razzem
10% more mana is 5.8% more healing in the end.
More really, because of Innervate/Replenishment/Revitalize.
But this also assumes that what you need is longevity rather than immediate throughput. In a fight that's shorter, but harder hitting, the increase in healing is better. In a fight that's longer, but has sustained damage over the long run, the mana is better.
In either, if you can't cast, you can't heal. Until you know you're not going to oom before the end of the encounter, Furor is better spent talents than Genesis. Doesn't matter if its a short fight or a long fight.
@ Razzem: if you think you're going to walk into Cata and not oom un you're first heroic, you should go back and check your math.
Excuse me? I've never said that mana isn't important, or that it won't be a bigger deal in the expansion so please quit putting words in my mouth. I remember times before this expansion that made me thing about mana quite a bit. I welcome the change. Just because I don't think Furor is all that doesn't mean that I don't think mana will be an issue.
Regarding the assertion that "10% more mana is 5.8% more healing" comment.... I think this is faulty logic.
1. You're only going to be casting heals if your target needs it. None of this calculated mana savings or healing means anything if you are ending the fight with extra mana.
2. Concerning Genesis VS Furor, if your HoTs are healing for more, it also means that you need to cast less heals to get the same job done, which means spending less mana. The HPS/total healing that Genesis gives will cut down the cost on how many heals you have to cast. This is especially true for times of needed HPS where a raid member/s is/are taking tons of damage. Furor does nothing for this.
3. Haste and Crit both will be affected by Genesis, whereas Furor doesn't get affected by either of these stats. Again, not quite so obvious, but the compounding effect of these stats on Genesis as a talent should not be dismissed. Again, more healing done at less cost.
Post by
404185
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Post by
skribs
It's a bit pointless to argue Furor (or any other mana talent) vs. Genesis (or any other throughput talent). If you find yourself having mana issues, you'll drop throughput talents for mana talents. If you find yourself with too much mana, you'll drop mana talents for throughput talents. When these things happen, you'll drop your weakest throughput or mana talents first, so that's the only thing that's really worth figuring out.
Which throughput talents are stronger than which other throughput talents. Which mana talents are stronger than which other mana talents.
Whether you need more mana talents or more throughput talents is something everyone's going to need to decide "on the ground" so to speak.
This. Exactly this. The point of min-maxing for yourself on any class is to figure out the best of each type of talent (in this case, throughput, mana, or utility), and then figure out which ones are the least powerful of any given type. I, who use a lot of CC, will find that point in Balance of Power to be very good, but it would be useless for someone who only heals, for example.
Post by
670862
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Post by
299264
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Post by
skribs
Consider also that a larger mana pool/better regen allows for more use of bigger, less efficient heals..
This will depend on a lot of factors, but you're right. More throughput means you can get away with using Nourish through more DTPS, and more regen means you can get away with using more bigger spells. It also depends on your group makeup (for example, if you group with healers who will DPS or stand around during light damage but shine during heavy damage, you're more likely to be using a lot of light healing).
It will also depend on your playstyle, reactions, and gear. If you have a lot of spirit gear you're more likely to go for throughput talents, and vice versa. Overall, it will be different for each player.
Post by
340332
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Post by
skribs
This is false, it just means you will overheal more, not that you will cast less. You arent going to top people off with a hot. If you know you arent going to need to cast another heal on that target for a while, then it is more efficient to cast a direct heal. HoTs aret there in anticipation of damage, not to heal damage already taken. GotEM now gives Rejuve a small direct heal, does that mean your not going to use RG to heal a deficit instead?
Yes, but HoTs are there to preemptively heal. If they do more overhealing, they'll also do more effective healing when they tick. You're thinking like WotLK where it'll take 1 GCD to heal anyone up to full, anyway - in Cata it will take longer to bring people up. If HoTs didn't need throughput, then why are most druids gemming pure SP right now?
Post by
404185
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Post by
80642
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Post by
skribs
Ober, are you only going to refresh lifebloom if the tank isn't at 100%? Are you only going to rejuv the tanks if they're not at 100%? Are you going to cast Rejuvenation on people who get a DoT on them when they get the DoT or when they start taking damage from the ticks?
Post by
404185
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