Post by skribs
With any amount of haste, more than 1 point in Swift Rejuv will probably be a waste. Also, you're looking at significantly less mana return from points 2 and 3 of Revitalize, because of the internal cooldown. I'm looking at something more like
this, which I think will help out more on longer fights. The 1 point in balance of power is to help when CCing or casting debuffs (if I need to).
Post by skribs
If your max mana pool is 90k (what I've seen reported is 80-100k), then Furor would give you 13.5k mana at 3 points. That means Replenishment is an extra 67.5 mp/5, and Innervate if used on CD would give an extra 75 mp/5, for a total of 13.5k mana and 142.5 mp/5.
I know I linked it somewhere, don't remember where, but:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/756376-Base-mana-%28level-85%29Druid base mana will be 18635. That means that Nourish (@ 10% base mana) is ~1863 mana. 9% off that is 167 mana. Healing touch is 38% base mana, or 7081 mana (meaning Moonglow gives you 637 mana). So if you use 50% Nourish and 50% healing touch, with 0 haste, then every 5 seconds you're going to save 804 mana by having Moonglow. That's a 661.5 mp/5 difference, which would take 102 seconds to catch up to the 13.5k base mana.
Now, I know healing breakdowns won't be exact; using more Regrowth or Rejuvenation will increase the mana spent (and therefore saved), while using Nourish or not healing will decrease mana spent. However, the harder you're healing, the much more you'll see out of using Moonglow over Furor.
Post by skribs
You're right that I forgot Revitalize, but it's 337.5 mana IF it procs on cooldown, when it's more likely to proc after at least 2-3 seconds unless you have multiple Rejuvs up (more mana than the return) or a lot of haste. That means you're looking at 8-9 seconds per tick, which reduces the MP/5 gain down to about 250. While that is significant, it isn't enough to catch up to Moonglow, especially as you start burning more mana (read: moonglow saves you more mana).
I guess I'll look at the different mana talents a bit more in depth:
On Revitalize:As I said earlier in the post, you're looking at significant diminishing returns for points 2 and 3. With 5% haste, 1 rejuv, and 1 LB active (so just gearing up in heroics) you're looking at getting this % of your mana back at each rank: 1.0, 1.43, 1.67 (an increase of 1.0%, 0.43%, 0.24% for each point). At 20% haste, 2 rejuvs, and 1 LB active (raiding), you're looking at something more like 1.22, 1.64, 1.86 (increase of 1.22%, 0.42%, 0.22% for each point). Let's say in very haste-centric gear and using a lot of rejuvs (50% haste, 5 active rejuvs), you're looking at 1.64, 1.98, 2.13 (increase of 1.64. 0.34, 0.15).
I get this number by finding out the average number of ticks/sec, then taking that in how many seconds it would take to proc at the proc change for a given rank. Then I add 6 seconds to that for the ICD, and it makes it easy for me to find the amount you'll get. So at 90k mana, in the second scenario (which is probably the closest to actual raiding), you'd get 1098 MP/5 from 1 rank, 378 MP/5 gain for the 2nd rank, and 216 MP/5 gain for the 3rd rank.
FurorAt 90k, Replenishment would be 450 MP/5, and Innervate would be 500 MP/5. Here is the amount you'd get from Furor for each rank of Revitalize:
0: 950 * 0.05 = 47.5
1: 2048 * 0.05 = 102.4
2: 2426 * 0.05 = 121.3
3: 2642 * 0.05 = 132.1
This is, of course, just the mana returns we're looking at, not the maximum mana. That will vary per fight, as shorter fights (think a quick 4-minute boss) the extra 4500 mana per rank is equal to 93.75 MP/5, but on a longer fight (think 15-minute LK) the extra 4500 mana per rank is equal to 25 MP/5.
Looking at it that way, I'd say that actually Revitalize would be more powerful than Furor even at 3 ranks (216-93.75 = 122.25, meaning even on the quicker fight you're looking at more out of Rank 3). This means we only need to compare Moonglow vs. Revitalize now.
Moonglow Moonglow is 3% of your spell cost per rank. With a base of 18635, you're looking at your spells saving the following mana/MP/5 (note that it's based on cast time as some spells are not spammable):
Nourish - 56/112
Healing Touch - 212/425
Regrowth - 196/652
Swiftmend - 56/186
Wild Growth - 151/503
Rejuvenation - 112/559
It would really depend on your healing breakdown, but let's say your casts are 10% Wild Growth, 10% Swiftmend, 10% Regrowth, 15% Rejuvenation, 20% Healing Touch, and 35% Nourish (I'm ignoring lifebloom assuming you're using Nourish to refresh it - this is a cast breakdown, not a healing breakdown). At this point, you would save 342 mp/5 on average, per point, which would put it above Rank 3 of Revitalize and below Rank 2.
There's 2 ways to look at it, then:
- You will probably not be casting every GCD in order to save mana, so you're likely to get less out of Moonglow than it appears (of course, that wouldn't change the facts unless you spend less than 2/3 of your time healing).
- There will be fights with a heavier breakdown, let's say 15% swiftmend, 15% wild growth, 20% regrowth, 25% healing touch, 20% rejuvenation, 5% nourish (really hard fight, in other words), in which you would get a lot more MP5 (in this scenario, 457 MP/5). I'd personally rather get more mana on harder fights than on easier fights, as harder fights are the ones more likely to OOM me anyway.
Of course, Revitalize will benefit from having more Rejuvs active, but it will be diminishing returns compared to what happens to Moonglow as you take more Nourishes out of your rotation.
My conclusion? 1 point Revitalize > Moonglow > 2-3 points Revitalize > Furor. Reason being I'd rather have an easier time on harder fights than the opposite. The only change I'd make to my spec, though, is to move 1 point from Furor to Revitalize.
EDIT: Malfurion's GiftLet me include Malfurion's Gift. At this point, you're looking at either 3 ranks for 2% or 4 ranks for 4%, because you include a 2-rank DPS talent. Let's assume your haste brings you up to 6 LB ticks per 5 seconds, you would have roughly a 12% or 24% chance to proc every 5 seconds (respectively). I know that's not exactly how probability works, but it's gonna get a close number. The following table includes the following: Spell - MP/5 saved at 1 rank, MP/5 per rank saved at 1 rank, MP/5 saved at 2 ranks, MP/5 per rank saved at 2 ranks (remember I'm dividing by 3 and 4 for 1 and 2 ranks, respectively).
Nourish - 223.62/74.54; 447.24/111.81
Healing Touch - 849.756/283.52; 1699.512; 424.878
Regrowth - 782.67/260.89; 1565.34/391.335
Swiftmend - 223.62/74.54; 447.24/111.81
Wild Growth - 603.774/201.258; 1207.548/301.887
Rejuvenation - 447.24/149.08; 223.62
This of course precludes OOC procs from the base spell, as well as any OOC procs during current procs. Nourish and Healing Touch would save the same amount per rank at 4 ranks in these talents as Moonglow, but the others would save less. Using the lighter breakdown, you'd see 158.8/238.2, and using the heavier breakdown you'd see 197.9/296.9 MP/5 saved per rank.
So, now back to the drawing board:
1 Rank Revitalize > Moonglow > 2 Rank Revitalize > 2 rank Malfurion's Gift > 3 Rank Revitalize > 1 Rank Malfurion's Gift > Furor. So my build I mentioned before the edit (my previous build with 1 point moved from Furor to Revitalize) is still the build I would go with.