This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Live
PTR
10.2.7
PTR
10.2.6
Beta
Resto in Cataclysm: My thoughts so far...
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
404185
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
skribs
I think we'll just have to see how the fights work. On a fight like Saurfang (which I think will be a lot more common than the fester/bql/dozen-other-bosses) you'd probably use a heal like HT/nourish on the blood nova targets but rejuv (and maybe nourish) on the boiling blood.
Post by
404185
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
skribs
Once again, you're looking at base spells. Without coefficients, we don't know what is going to happen. Consider that paladins and holy priests will scale worse with crit than with anyone else (divine aegis, ancestral awakening, living seed) and you have a varying scale there.
If you're spamming the tank, chances are you have lifebloom (and nourish spam refreshes LB constantly). Which means you have a HoT rolling. Paladins spamming the tank will get holy power very quick, which doesn't factor into Holy Light spam but will factor into Word of Glory usage. Shamans will get 15% extra healing on ES'd targets. Disc Priests have Heal reduce the duration of Weakened Soul, and Holy Priests have a bonus to Heal via shakra. All healers really have options which increase their effectiveness when healing the tank, and I think that we can't really theorycraft it without knowing the coefficients and how the spells will work together.
Also consider this scenario - the people who need a spot heal have 2500 damage. In that case, your numbers are just varying amounts of overheal per class, with or without a HoT active for Nourish.
Post by
404185
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
80642
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
skribs
In that scenario, in Cataclysm, you shouldn't be healing anyone, you should be waiting for them to take more damage so you don't waste mana on overhealing. At least as far as I understand things.
I think you're going too far in the other direction. It's not going to be to the point of "unless your critical heal will fully heal the target, don't cast a heal." Otherwise nobody would use HoTs or absorbs. Mana is going to be an issue, and you won't just be spamming heals on everyone, but I don't see completely disavowing heals unless it's 100% effective as the only strategy. It will depend a lot on gear and the fight as to whether it's a good idea.
The goal in WotLK is to keep everyone topped off. The goal in Cata is to keep everyone alive. That doesn't mean we can't keep people topped off if our mana pool can handle a little overhealing.
Yeah, I'm not really debating for tank healing. I think druids are going to be great tank healers. It's the raid healing I'm a bit concerned about.
Looking at Nourish is a poor way to look at raid healing, if you ask me. With raid heals, you have to consider the entire package. Even then, some classes may be better on some fights than others (e.g. if we have another malygos, shamans are going to only be useful on the air phases that their Spiritwalker's Grace is up). Right now we have that much information (that is subject to a lot of tuning before release) and you're doing that much theorycrafting with it.
Edit:
You also ignored:
For priests: Empowered Healing, Archangel (although use of archangel may be situations where you wouldn't want heal), Twin Disciplines, Darkness, and Inspiration (will affect the damage taken by the target)
Disc only: Borrowed Time, Grace, Renewed Hope, 15% Intellect
Holy only: Chakra (I'd add in Test of Faith, but in the situation you'd proc ToF you'd be using FH/GH)
Druid: Master Shapeshifter, Heart of the Wild (6% intellect), Empowered Touch, Nature's Majesty, Nature's Grace (although proccing NG may be times when you aren't using Nourish anyway)
Shaman: Spark of Life, Ancestral Healing (will affect damage taken by the target), Tidal Waves, Acuity
Paladin: Judgments of the Pure, Beacon of Light, Divine Favor, Divinity.
I am of course ignoring glyphs and probably missed some talents, but as you can see the perspective of "base healing done by 1 spell for each class" is a very poor way to look at the class. Just looking at the talents that affect those spells, or what other spells are affected by those spells you can see that it is a lot more complex.
Post by
80642
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
skribs
Revitalize and Replenishment gave me ample mana back. More-so if we pick up Furor or Heart of the Wild. There's currently a bug that allows Nourish to give Replenishment (it doesn't appear to make the check for refreshing Lifebloom).
Is this just if you cast nourish on a target that doesn't even have an active lifebloom?
Anyway, good writeup NetStormer, I'd use the wowhead talent calculator over mmo-c though (unless it's right after a patch, mmo updates faster) because you can put glyphs into the wowhead version, makes the writeup easier too.
Rolling Lifebloom is a hard habit to pick up again. Keeping in mind we can only have it on one person at a time, my tank frequently found himself without a stack as I cast it on another party member. When I remembered and we had things under control, keeping lifebloom up on the tank was no issue, and incredibly easy on mana.
Lifebloom, Rejuv and Nourish going on the tank should be enough in most situations.
It will be easy for me to pick up, I still do it (spirit gems ftw). I think the point is that your HoTs should be used on the tank, Nourish if needed. But when the tank starts taking big hits (which will become easier to predict over time) you can switch to HT or Regrowth.
The instant rejuv heal is hitting for about two thirds of the rejuv ticks.
I think this is going to change with haste. "Your rejuvenation will instantly heal for 15% it's total periodic effect." At 4 ticks, that's going to be 15% of 4 ticks, or 60% of 1 tick. At 5 ticks, it will be 75% of 1 tick. At 6 ticks, it will be 90% of 1 tick. I don't think we'll be going over 50% haste in cata.
Post by
404185
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
skribs
Are you saying that if you have lifebloom going on someone and then cast it on someone else it wipes the stacks you had going already? I guess that's better than the alternative.
Just like Grace for a disc priest.
Post by
80642
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
80642
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
skribs
#
Casting the same spell while it is still active does not count as a new cast, it is merely refreshing the duration of the spell. Ex) Rejuvenation -> Lifebloom -> Rejuvenation. The second Rejuvenation is not affected by the mastery bonus as it is not a new spell. It is refreshing the existing Rejuvenation on the target.
#
This works the opposite way as well. Going Lifebloom -> Rejuvenation and continuing to refresh Rejuvenation after Lifebloom expires will maintain the buff on Rejuvenation.
If you cast rejuv -> lifebloom, and let rejuv fall off and then refresh it, do you get the bonus on both?
Overall, this is interesting for theorycrafting, but I don't know how practical the knowledge will be in raids unless you have high levels of mastery. Chances are you'll use the right spell for the job, and the mastery will be just a bonus when applied.
Post by
80642
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
404185
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
skribs
Well I'm just saying, if someone takes a hit and they're going to be healed quick, there's no point in putting a rejuv on them. Even though your Nourish will be weaker, it will still do the job. However, if they're going to take damage for a little bit (or if it will take a while to heal them up), Rejuv first and then nourish/HT is likely to be used.
In the first situation, you have 2 options - make mastery count, or ignore mastery. By making mastery count, you're likely to spend a lot of mana on Rejuvenation for a small bonus. In the second situation, you would have benefit from mastery anyway by putting your HoT up first.
Post by
404185
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
skribs
You're also thinking of WotLK healing where an HL is enough to snipe. In Cata, people won't be brought up to 100% with 1 cast most of the time, and if they are it will be likely running the other healer OOM. To be honest, though, I think you're over-analyzing it from a "We're going to suck" perspective. The way I see it, there will be different types of damage taken. Tank damage we've covered with LBx1 proccing mastery for LBx2-3 and so on. If someone can be healed in 3-6 seconds, then you don't need to worry about mastery. If someone needs to be healed for 6-12 seconds, chances are just using Rejuv to proc mastery for HT/Nourish will be enough, and you won't need to maximize your mastery usage unless it's heavy burst or a long debuff the target has.
I think we'll do fine at raid healing. If we know the damage is coming, we can get a Rejuv up for Efflorescence, we have Wild Growth, and we have Tree of Life. I think Shamans are the only class that will truly have an advantage on AoE fights, and even then they will likely see more use out of using CH in rotation with single target heals than if they just spam CH (tidal waves). Holy priests have good AoE, too, but ProH can't hit multiple groups very well, and once again they'll probably get more out of using rotation than if they just spam ProH (serendipity). Disc Priest appears to be more focused on smite than PW:S, and paladins are getting a nerf to the pure "I keep tank up while never healing him so I can spot heal uber well" strategy that they use now.
Post by
342189
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.