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Ugh Cata Nerfs?
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Post by
wildx22
Effin Cataclysm...
http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/
Beast Mastery
Viper Venom and Scorpid Venom seems to be gone.
Widow Venom no longer mentions "Only one Venom per Hunter can be active on any one target.", I guess the 2 previous venoms are indeed gone.
Focus Fire now has a 15 sec cooldown. Down from 30 sec.
Improved Kill Command now Increases the critical strike chance of your Kill Command by 5/10% instead of reducing its cooldown.
Marksmanship
Kill Shot now deals 150% weapon damage (down from 200%) and scales with 30% of your Attack Power (down from 40%). Base damage reduced by 50%. Cooldown increased from 6 sec to 10 sec. Focus cost removed.
Multi-Shot - Fires several missiles, hitting your current target and all enemies within yards of that target for x% of weapon damage. / 40 Focus, 5-35 yd range, Instant
Aimed Shot no longer deals 300% of weapon damage, now deals damage. Cast time increased from 2 sec to 3 sec.
Arcane Shot base damage reduced by 60%, now scales from 19% of Attack Power, up from 17%.
Chimera Shot no longer deals 190% weapon damage, now deals .
Survival
Serpent Spread - Targets hit by your Multi-Shot are also afflicted by your Serpent Sting equal to 6/9 sec of its total duration.
Point of No Escape no longer affects Freezing Arrow.
I am really bothered by that Kill Shot nerf, but I'm not sure about the implications of the other changes. Although Multi Shot does look like it can do more AoE now.
Post by
512617
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Interest
I'm in denial. This isn't real. They wouldn't do that to my kill shot. I'm going to go metaphorically put my fingers in my ears and pretend I never saw this.
Kill Shot needed the nerf. TRUST ME.
What it also needs is a reliable way to harm armored targets (make it more like Cobra Shot maybe?)
Other than that, it's stronger than HoW and Execute combined, easily.
Post by
512617
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Lorkin
From what I've been reading from the folks in beta, this was sorta expected.
Kill shot was a flat out nerf, but with the removal of focus we can use it anytime it's off CD. Might work out in our favor towards the end, who knows.
Multi looks interesting, D2 Amazon spread fire ftw.
Aimed shot numbers might actually work in our favor, sure scales better I think. Using current stats, my
Zod's
would yield avg weapon damage of 714 * 300% ~ 2142 damage. Currently raid buffed, I have upwards of 7600 RAP (more with procs) which via calculations ~ 3721 damage.
Same can be said about Chimera Shot. Currently the 190% damage does ~ 1356.6 damage. With the change ~ 2225 damage.
I know weapon damages will skyrocket when Cata hits with the new weapons, but one can hope our RAP will scale just as well. Its still beta, so anything can change.
Post by
Lorkin
...Kill Shot needed the nerf. TRUST ME...
Blasphemy.
Naw, it was overkill for PvP and just redic for raids. When you can constantly kill shot crit for 34k+ on bosses, it just makes it crazy. Was nice when it lasted though.
Post by
Rilgon
Currently the 190% damage does ~ 1356.6 damage.
awww, well ain't that cute
BUT IT'S WROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG
In any situation where an ability states that it does "weapon damage plus" or "% weapon damage", it actually means modified weapon damage (except Steady Shot, which explicitly says "unmodified weapon damage").
On Live (since beta is down), I have 6145 RAP, and Heroic Zod's (618-1000 damage).
Modified Weapon Damage = rand(WeaponLowEnd,WeaponHighEnd) + (AP / 14 * 2.8) (ammo only added if the weapon is ranged) (2.8 is used as the speed due to speed normalization; in place since 1.7)
For me, that becomes:
rand(618,1000) + (6145 / 14 * 2.8) + (91.5 * 2.8)
rand(618,1000) + 1229 + 256.2
2103.2 to 2485.2 damage
That's what things like Auto would hit for, before any modifiers. For Chimera Shot, that would simply be:
1.9 * WeaponDamage
Let's use the high end, just as a static number.
1.9 * 2485.2
4721.88 damage
Now, using the new formula, we have:
(.24 * AP) + 401
(.24 * 6145) + 401
1875.8 damage
I am certain you can see how 4721.88 is a lot bigger than 1875.8.
For a person with Zod's to see no loss in average damage (using the midline value of 809), we need to solve for:
4358.98 = X * .24 + 401
4358.98 - 401 = X * .24 + 401 - 401
3957.98 = X * .24
3957.98 / .24 = X * .24 / .24
16491.583~ = X
Therefore, if you have less than 16,492 RAP and have Heroic Zod's, it's a nerf.
Show of hands, who has 16.5k RAP?
Post by
HoleofArt
I cried when I read this.
True story.
Post by
Rilgon
To be fair, GC just said:
"Most of these attack still scale from weapon damage. We just changed them from say 200% weapon damage to 100% weapon damage with a higher attack power component. We want weapon damage to matter, but not quite as much as it does on live.
As an example, Chimera Shot now says: "An instant shot that causes weapon damage plus N, refreshing your Serpent Sting and triggering an effect depending on the venom on the target..."."
Given that, we find that Chimera is now:
2485.2 + 1875.8 = 4361
Yeah, I'm still losing about 400 damage (roughly a 10% nerf), but it's much better than the ~75% nerf that the rumored info was.
Post by
Interest
...Kill Shot needed the nerf. TRUST ME...
Blasphemy.
Naw, it was overkill for PvP and just redic for raids. When you can constantly kill shot crit for 34k+ on bosses, it just makes it crazy. Was nice when it lasted though.
I've done 44k on Rotface...and i'm at 37% Arpen with like...ICC-10 levelish gear.
And if you want some damn proof
Post by
Lorkin
Doh, forgot about the modified weapon damage. I've been failing on math lately so I'll use someone else's numbers.
From the MMO forums:
Aimed shot has not been "nerfed" - its had catstime increased when you don't have 5 stacks of Master Marksman - but you shouldn't be using it except as an opener if you don't.
Aimed shot got changed from 300% weapon damage. At icc level thats 638 - 1186 Damage (Zod's 277) x 3 = 1914 - 3558, or 2-3.5k damage + AP/14 * speed (2.8) for a grand total of + 1500 damage /at 7,5k ap.
(On live its 100% weapon damage)
The new model will be 40% ap + 681, which at the same AP amount is;
7500 * 0,4 + 681 = 3681
Thats a change from a fluctuating shot of 3.k - 5k to a fixed 3,5k at icc levels (raidbuffed)
The change scales a lot better, isn't weaponspeed dependant and will upgrade with every piece gear, and not just with the ranged weapon.
Remember that Arcane shot is 100% vs 300% on live atm. So essentially it will scale better, and I'd be surprised if we don't hit the high 15k+ RAP at 85 in full raid gear. I peak close to 10k RAP when the stars align and I get the right procs on my raids.
Hopefully someone in beta that's tested out the new numbers can provide them soonish.
Edit:
Naw, it was overkill for PvP and just redic for raids. When you can
constantly kill shot crit for 34k+
on bosses, it just makes it crazy. Was nice when it lasted though.
I've done 44k on Rotface...and i'm at 37% Arpen with like...ICC-10 levelish gear.
And if you want some damn proof
You're SS showed an avg KS of ~34k, and I did mention constantly.
Post by
HoleofArt
And how many Kill Shots do you get in? At most? 6? 7? Take into the chance that it might not crit, and you really don't see that big of a deal. Sure, it hits like a truck when you can use it, but Ferocious Bite and Arcane Blast would like a word with you.
Those things hit for 20k constantly in mediocre gear. KS really wasn't overkill. Yay, I get to crit for over 36k (I've seen a Chimera Shot for 35k with the attack and the sting added together :P ) for the last >45 seconds of the fight. That's it. Now if we could do it the entire fight? I could see the nerf.
And about PvP? Get some Resilience. It doesn't hit that hard.
I just didn't see the need for the KS nerf.
Post by
Rilgon
At least it's FREE now. :P
Post by
Rilgon
Yeah, but Zod's also has higher damage on Cata. :P
It's odd - they made Arcane Shot scale with weapon damage and now it hits like a ^&*!ing truck. I was getting 16k Arcane Shots. o_O;
Post by
Lorkin
I watched that video where that hunter had all arcane shots on his hot bar and the damage he was doing was redic. Course the week after he posted that they nerf arcane shot.
You haven't found an upgrade to heroic Zod's yet in Cata? I thought for sure one of the first blue quest rewards would replace ilvl 277 equip. Interesting.
Post by
Rilgon
No, the first replacement to H-Zod's is in Deepholme.
I actually have not replaced any of my gear, but I refuse to do Hyjal or Uldum (as I don't wanna spoil the storylines).
Post by
Interest
And how many Kill Shots do you get in? At most? 6? 7? Take into the chance that it might not crit, and you really don't see that big of a deal. Sure, it hits like a truck when you can use it, but Ferocious Bite and Arcane Blast would like a word with you.
Those things hit for 20k constantly in mediocre gear. KS really wasn't overkill. Yay, I get to crit for over 36k (I've seen a Chimera Shot for 35k with the attack and the sting added together :P ) for the last >45 seconds of the fight. That's it. Now if we could do it the entire fight? I could see the nerf.
And about PvP? Get some Resilience. It doesn't hit that hard.
I just didn't see the need for the KS nerf.
Go shoot some cloth-users with 1000 resil and come back to me. It hurts.
Edit:
Naw, it was overkill for PvP and just redic for raids. When you can
constantly kill shot crit for 34k+
on bosses, it just makes it crazy. Was nice when it lasted though.
I've done 44k on Rotface...and i'm at 37% Arpen with like...ICC-10 levelish gear.
And if you want some damn proof
You're SS showed an avg KS of ~34k, and I did mention constantly.
I am aware of the average. But do keep in mind the top damage was with all procs active, which would be about the equivalent of having near the Arpen cap and having a mix of ICC-25, ICC-10 heroic and ICC-25 heroic gear. So it's not far off. (Means the top damage would get pushed even higher, and therefore the average would jump to my current top Kill Shots)
Post by
Rilgon
Summary: Kill Shot got nerfed because of PVPtards crying, nothing new, we'll have to learn to live with it, move on.
Post by
168838
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
HoleofArt
And about PvP? Get some Resilience. It doesn't hit that hard.
I just didn't see the need for the KS nerf.
Go shoot some cloth-users with 1000 resil and come back to me. It hurts.
Except not. Resilience is a flat decrease, not even counting any reductions (read:all) cloth users have to mitigate damage in the first place, not some randomly changing decrease for each user.
If anyone is crying about KS in PvP, it's a l2p issue, not an issue with the ability itself.
I'll say it again, the Killshot nerf didn't seem to be needed. I'm not on Beta, so maybe it was broken with Cataclysm gear, but as it stands now, it's working as intended.
No, the first replacement to H-Zod's is in Deepholme.
I actually have not replaced any of my gear...
That's what I figured. People seem to forget that your raid gear is also being changed into items with far stronger stats because of how itemization works in Cataclysm. The jump really isn't all that big for a lot of items - and sockets, Tier bonuses, and procs will take care of the rest.
tl;dr
The gear jump isn't as big as you think.
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