This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Live
PTR
10.2.5
PTR
10.2.6
Alliance has reason to hate Horde,what about Horde...
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
44284
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
423967
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Garenzo
aye garithos was a boot heel of a man deserving of his fate.
kinda like garrosh he believed his race was superior.
Except Garrosh doesn't. Can't believe people still believe those rumours from before the expansion was announced.
Post by
Felicitas66
1. They really weren't all that bad to the Horde. There was Thrall, who had it pretty bad of course and a few gladiator rings, which only the most defiant strong willed orcs would participate in, but overall, the orcs weren't really treated any worse than sheep or cattle due to their lethargic withdrawal. In everything I read in Lord of the Clans, and saw in the Caverns of Time, and heard characters speak about, I never really heard about the normal orcs being abused. Instead, it basically seemed that the orcs were merely behaving as animals who sat in the mud all day and kinda wandered off to bed at night.
I'm not for treating people like animals, of course, but it was the orcs themselves acting like animals, not the guards treating them that way. All the guards really did was feed them and keep them from wandering away.
In Southshore in the CoT Old Hillsbrad instance, the NPCs talk about the orcs (and Thrall in particular) as if they ARE animals. They don't talk about them with compassion. Treat sentient beings like animals long enough and many of them will start to act that way. Don't blame the orcs for giving in to a base survival instinct and don't gloss over internment camps and forced gladitorial combat as some happy sunshine thing that wasn't "all that bad" for the Horde.
Post by
Skreeran
1. They really weren't all that bad to the Horde. There was Thrall, who had it pretty bad of course and a few gladiator rings, which only the most defiant strong willed orcs would participate in, but overall, the orcs weren't really treated any worse than sheep or cattle due to their lethargic withdrawal. In everything I read in Lord of the Clans, and saw in the Caverns of Time, and heard characters speak about, I never really heard about the normal orcs being abused. Instead, it basically seemed that the orcs were merely behaving as animals who sat in the mud all day and kinda wandered off to bed at night.
I'm not for treating people like animals, of course, but it was the orcs themselves acting like animals, not the guards treating them that way. All the guards really did was feed them and keep them from wandering away.
In Southshore in the CoT Old Hillsbrad instance, the NPCs talk about the orcs (and Thrall in particular) as if they ARE animals. They don't talk about them with compassion. Treat sentient beings like animals long enough and many of them will start to act that way. Don't blame the orcs for giving in to a base survival instinct and don't gloss over internment camps and forced gladitorial combat as some happy sunshine thing that wasn't "all that bad" for the Horde.It certainly wasn't great, but it wasn't inhumane, either (barring what happened to Thrall, which
was
inhumane).
The humans didn't beat them, or humiliate them, or anything else that could be labeled inhumane or cruel. We have heard of gladiator rings, of course, but that certainly didn't seem to be too widespread (only two references to orcs being trained as gladiators, Rehgar and Thrall), and naturally, only the active, non-lethargic orcs (which were an overwhelming minority) would have been used for that.
I'm not saying that the orcs can't be upset about being interned (especially 2nd gen orcs who didn't do anything to deserve it), but you can't exactly call them horrible torture camps either. The Alliance treated the majority of the Horde fairly after the Second War. They had an orc problem, and their options were to kill the orcs en masse, or pay out of their own pocket to keep the orcs alive. And thanks to King Terenas, they chose to give the orcs the more merciful fate.
As for the women and children, with the women, they were just as much warriors and warlocks and killers as the men. They had no choice but to intern the women with the men, because they were both warriors of the Horde. As for the children, I suppose the humans could have torn the children out of the arms of their parents and put them in schools and orphanages, but that seems worse to me than just leaving them with their parents in the camps.
Oh, and btw Rank, I just wanted to add: you said that "the bolded parts were true," but they really have been exaggerated tremendously (the largest exaggeration being Garithos and the Blood Elves).
Post by
Adamsm
Heh, if the Orcs were going to be abused in the camps.... why did so many vote against Genn Graymane and Trollbane's idea of just slaughtering the entire race instead of keeping them alive in the camps, and that includes both Terenas and Varian? Lordaeron was 'kind' to the orc captives for the most part... but there were people like Blackmoore in charge of the camps and they used them as amusement instead of just watching over them.
Edit:exactly, if they don't know he's guilty, why imprison him? doesn't he has a right to a trial? to defend himself? ohh his skin is green, PUT HIM IN THE CAGE.He was an orc and a 'war criminal'... after the second war, all orcs were suppose to be in the camps and that's it; had they realized they had Thrall, Blackmoore's 'pet orc' they would have had him in triple chains and locks to keep him from escaping and claimed the reward. He was 'lucky' to be captured by a group of idiots so he could escape again.
Post by
Felicitas66
I'm not saying that the orcs can't be upset about being interned (especially 2nd gen orcs who didn't do anything to deserve it), but you can't exactly call them horrible torture camps either. The Alliance treated the majority of the Horde fairly after the Second War. They had an orc problem, and their options were to kill the orcs en masse, or pay out of their own pocket to keep the orcs alive. And thanks to King Terenas, they chose to give the orcs the more merciful fate..
I can certainly call it what it is, slavery and forced internment, since the Dalaran mages figured out quickly that the reason for the lethargy was withdrawal from demon blood. No, the internment camps were not merciful. They should have been a short-term solution, but once it was known what had happened to the orcs on Draenor to cause the trouble, a longer-term solution should have been sought.
Face it, the humans in this game aren't spotless. They can be terribly racist (to say the least), with notable exceptions, like Jaina. Varian's words to Thrall in the battle for the Undercity are just sickening. And trying to justify and explain away the internment camps is pretty bad. They're not a happy spot in the history of the humans.
Post by
Adamsm
They should have been a short-term solution, but once it was known what had happened to the orcs on Draenor to cause the trouble, a longer-term solution should have been sought.Like what... killing them all? As Grom Hellscream and his forces were still out there raiding the human settlements for supplies and 'showing' that the war like Horde was still around... mainly because you know, the Dark Portal had been sealed and there was no way to send them home, so Azeroth was stuck with it's 'guests'.
Post by
Felicitas66
They should have been a short-term solution, but once it was known what had happened to the orcs on Draenor to cause the trouble, a longer-term solution should have been sought.Like what... killing them all? As Grom Hellscream and his forces were still out there raiding the human settlements for supplies and 'showing' that the war like Horde was still around... mainly because you know, the Dark Portal had been sealed and there was no way to send them home, so Azeroth was stuck with it's 'guests'.
Trying to negotiate with Grom comes to mind ... showing him that they recognized that the orcs were better than animals, and that they knew what had happened on Draenor.
Oh wait ... they
didn't
recognize that the orcs were better than animals, because the humans tend to be
racists
.
Post by
255458
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
Taking a step back, about Garrosh killing druids in Stonetalon...
Is this just a typo, and you guys really meant Grom Hellscream wtfpwning druids in Stonetalon, or is this a Cata spoiler?
Cata spoiler; and he doesn't bomb it, one of his commanders do and Garrosh kills them for it.
Post by
Garenzo
Taking a step back, about Garrosh killing druids in Stonetalon...
Is this just a typo, and you guys really meant Grom Hellscream wtfpwning druids in Stonetalon, or is this a Cata spoiler?
It's a Cata thing. Don't read if you don't want it spoiled.
Throughout the Stonetalon quests, you raise in rank in an army led by an orc named Krom'gar - he's pretty much exactly the way people on here tend to describe Garrosh so probably got them mixed up. At the end of the chain he shows his true colors by first killing the wife and child of a tauren who teaches (?) at the neutral druid school in the area and after that he drops a bomb on it.
Suddenly, a portal from Orgrimmar appears and a rather pissed off Garrosh shows up and makes short work of Krom'gar after some top notch dialogue. It's a must see. :-P
Post by
255458
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
LordExplode
I think about it and the alliance comes down to humans being bad...
Its not all their fault really since humans are everywhere in azoroth... its just they always seem to do something to every race.
Cases is Genocide on the trolls, betraying the blood elfs, Orcs for obvisous reasons, haveing no understanding for the forsaken (but they dont seem to mind anyway)... as for the tauren Other then messing up land idk anything there.
Post by
Adamsm
Cases is Genocide on the trollsIf your talking about the troll war, they helped their allies the High Elves from being genocided by the Amani trolls. If your talking about the Darkspear, that was mainly the troops of Kul Tiras... and we know what the Grand Admiral attempted to do. You can't blame all humans for one or two kingdoms... which considering the way Daelin reacted to the new Horde, it is still weird that the old racist hater ended up going along with the camp plans.
Post by
Monday
They should have been a short-term solution, but once it was known what had happened to the orcs on Draenor to cause the trouble, a longer-term solution should have been sought.Like what... killing them all? As Grom Hellscream and his forces were still out there raiding the human settlements for supplies and 'showing' that the war like Horde was still around... mainly because you know, the Dark Portal had been sealed and there was no way to send them home, so Azeroth was stuck with it's 'guests'.
Trying to negotiate with Grom comes to mind ... showing him that they recognized that the orcs were better than animals, and that they knew what had happened on Draenor.
Oh wait ... they
didn't
recognize that the orcs were better than animals, because the humans tend to be
racists
.
The Horde were no better than animals at that time (note the words "at that time".) They were demonically powered killing machines. The Alliance tried to negotiate with the Horde int he first war, and look where that got them. It's no wonder they didn't try to negotiate with Grom.
Post by
Adamsm
They should have been a short-term solution, but once it was known what had happened to the orcs on Draenor to cause the trouble, a longer-term solution should have been sought.Like what... killing them all? As Grom Hellscream and his forces were still out there raiding the human settlements for supplies and 'showing' that the war like Horde was still around... mainly because you know, the Dark Portal had been sealed and there was no way to send them home, so Azeroth was stuck with it's 'guests'.
Trying to negotiate with Grom comes to mind ... showing him that they recognized that the orcs were better than animals, and that they knew what had happened on Draenor.
Oh wait ... they
didn't
recognize that the orcs were better than animals, because the humans tend to be
racists
.
Heh missed this; so negotiate with the chieftain of one of the war bands who so recently attack and helped raze northern Lordaeron and the lands of the High Elves, who was part of the same group who eradicated Stormwind... yeah... that's going to help. Grom also saw his forces as still being greater then the Alliance, even as he was forced to live in hiding and use strike raids to get supplies for his people. Remember, this is after a pair of wars that ranged across nearly the entire Eastern Kingdoms, the Humans are not seeing the Orcs as a good thing... at all, since, they were invaded by them. Sure, there was a demon corruption to them... but they still attacked and destroyed areas of land; also don't forget, the orcs didn't lose the Blood Rage for a good long time; as far as the human kings and commanders knew, they could end up with a second Horde rampaging into them if they let the orcs free from the camps.
Post by
Skreeran
They should have been a short-term solution, but once it was known what had happened to the orcs on Draenor to cause the trouble, a longer-term solution should have been sought.Like what... killing them all? As Grom Hellscream and his forces were still out there raiding the human settlements for supplies and 'showing' that the war like Horde was still around... mainly because you know, the Dark Portal had been sealed and there was no way to send them home, so Azeroth was stuck with it's 'guests'.
Trying to negotiate with Grom comes to mind ... showing him that they recognized that the orcs were better than animals, and that they knew what had happened on Draenor.
Oh wait ... they
didn't
recognize that the orcs were better than animals, because the humans tend to be
racists
.
The Horde were no better than animals at that time (note the words "at that time".) They were demonically powered killing machines. The Alliance tried to negotiate with the Horde int he first war, and look where that got them. It's no wonder they didn't try to negotiate with Grom.And don't forget, Grom wasn't just wanting peace, either. He didn't kill that child, which meant he had standards, but I have no doubt that if a group of adult male humans approached him, he'd kill them without a second thought. Just look at how he treated the humans on Kalimdor in War3.
Post by
Monday
They should have been a short-term solution, but once it was known what had happened to the orcs on Draenor to cause the trouble, a longer-term solution should have been sought.Like what... killing them all? As Grom Hellscream and his forces were still out there raiding the human settlements for supplies and 'showing' that the war like Horde was still around... mainly because you know, the Dark Portal had been sealed and there was no way to send them home, so Azeroth was stuck with it's 'guests'.
Trying to negotiate with Grom comes to mind ... showing him that they recognized that the orcs were better than animals, and that they knew what had happened on Draenor.
Oh wait ... they
didn't
recognize that the orcs were better than animals, because the humans tend to be
racists
.
The Horde were no better than animals at that time (note the words "at that time".) They were demonically powered killing machines. The Alliance tried to negotiate with the Horde int he first war, and look where that got them. It's no wonder they didn't try to negotiate with Grom.And don't forget, Grom wasn't just wanting peace, either. He didn't kill that child, which meant he had standards, but I have no doubt that if a group of adult male humans approached him, he'd kill them without a second thought. Just look at how he treated the humans on Kalimdor in War3.
Yup.
Frankly, at that time, the Horde were the bad guys (note again, "at that time").
Post by
Felicitas66
They should have been a short-term solution, but once it was known what had happened to the orcs on Draenor to cause the trouble, a longer-term solution should have been sought.Like what... killing them all? As Grom Hellscream and his forces were still out there raiding the human settlements for supplies and 'showing' that the war like Horde was still around... mainly because you know, the Dark Portal had been sealed and there was no way to send them home, so Azeroth was stuck with it's 'guests'.
Trying to negotiate with Grom comes to mind ... showing him that they recognized that the orcs were better than animals, and that they knew what had happened on Draenor.
Oh wait ... they
didn't
recognize that the orcs were better than animals, because the humans tend to be
racists
.
The Horde were no better than animals at that time (note the words "at that time".) They were demonically powered killing machines. The Alliance tried to negotiate with the Horde int he first war, and look where that got them. It's no wonder they didn't try to negotiate with Grom.
I'm sorry; did you not read what I wrote? The mages of Dalaran had figured out what went on on Draenor by the time period we're referring to.
But you guys go on justifying whatever you want to justify.
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.