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Battle.net Real ID System - Call To Arms
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Post by
Fizzlesnot
There's no way I'd ever use this RealID thing as it is presented on the Blizz site and as a parent if I found out that there was no way of setting privacy for my minor child I'd pull their account. I thought it was stupid enough to require your email as a login but now to provide something that puts your real name out there for anyone your friends might also friend to see? Ummm, fail.
My ex-husband plays WoW (the one I have a restraining order against because he tried to shoot me) and we do still know many of the same people. By allowing friends of friends to see my real name, he could easily find me and make my online life miserable. While I'm sure Blizz wouldn't take kindly to him stalking me in the game, having to deal with it in the first place is enough of an annoyance.
Not being able to prevent friends of friends from seeing your info is a guarantee I will never use it. In this world, privacy should be of utmost concern and it appears Blizz isn't the least bit interested in it. Honestly the poster who suggested that the whole point of this is to cross-sell games probably hit the nail on the head.
At least it IS optional (at this point) ...
Post by
Toontang
Trashwalk, you keep saying opting out is not a solution. I don't think you know what you're talking about.
If a person is allergic to milk, he doesn't drink it. Those who do like it drink it. Just because there are people allergic to milk doesn't make milk any less "broken."
This system was made for a certain use. If it doesn't do that for you, then you shouldn't use it.
I will say this to you simple, in the software industry, information industry we protect the masses and give users the ability to protect themselves. They have explicitly removed this ability by simple not including it. If you can not see that, it is perhaps too deep for you, as obvious as it is.
I would think your analogy would work better if it were a gun. And blizzard just dropped a case loud of them on the playground. I am ok with that gun, it won't hurt me, but a lot of kids are about to shoot themselves.
And i will say again, for you to speak of YOURSELF, as not having a problem with this, just shows YOU do not have a problem with this, NOR DO I, I am a software developer, I get technology, I will not use this. I realize its broke, messed up, useless.
But as a developer I also know it was done this way on purpose to the detriment of the community as a whole.
Lets try to be a little less of a narcissist and think of the community. The children, those who are not so technically savvy. This is not about YOU, its about community. So to speak direct to you, think OTHERS not SELF - give it a try!
Post by
Toontang
There's no way I'd ever use this RealID thing as it is presented on the Blizz site and as a parent if I found out that there was no way of setting privacy for my minor child I'd pull their account. I thought it was stupid enough to require your email as a login but now to provide something that puts your real name out there for anyone your friends might also friend to see? Ummm, fail.
My ex-husband plays WoW (the one I have a restraining order against because he tried to shoot me) and we do still know many of the same people. By allowing friends of friends to see my real name, he could easily find me and make my online life miserable. While I'm sure Blizz wouldn't take kindly to him stalking me in the game, having to deal with it in the first place is enough of an annoyance.
Not being able to prevent friends of friends from seeing your info is a guarantee I will never use it. In this world, privacy should be of utmost concern and it appears Blizz isn't the least bit interested in it. Honestly the poster who suggested that the whole point of this is to cross-sell games probably hit the nail on the head.
At least it IS optional (at this point) ...
And here it is. It starts, its clear, blizzard has messed up. That simple elementary privacy web interface I post originally is enough to protect this woman and many more like her.
These issues are too much for children to understand. The one thing we have leaned in the web industry is that children have little concept of privacy or the value thereof.
This is the perfect post to drive home the point its not ABOUT SELF, its about thinking of others and protecting others as a community.
Post by
seebs
Fizzle, would you mind if I quoted that post on the main WoW forums? I'm having a hard time explaining these issues to people, and sometimes concrete examples help.
<too soon>Would it help if we made a wowhead entry for Fizzlesnot that says you only drop vendor trash?</too soon>
Post by
229173
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Pwntiff
This is why I like pressing points and flaws in arguments, sometimes you eventually get a worthwhile debate.
I have 3 friends I am planning on using this system with, mainly because this will free up around 170 friends. (each of their 6-8 characters across each of my 8). I know these people by name anyway, and they know me by name anyway.
If they added a pseudonym system, I would expand the number of people, but currently it will only be people I know by name anyway.
Yes, it needs work, but it currently measures up to what it was billed at, I believe.
Hyperspacerebel almost made me make a GearScore analogy >_<
Post by
179683
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Fizzlesnot
Fizzle, would you mind if I quoted that post on the main WoW forums? I'm having a hard time explaining these issues to people, and sometimes concrete examples help.
Sure go ahead if you like. I did post something similar there though. The people at Blizz apparently don't realize that in real life people who play WoW often don't get along and that their realID concept is just asking for trouble.
Post by
109444
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Pwntiff
@Ximinez
One the one hand HSR's milk analogy is slightly skewed. You are correct that a milk allergy typically cannot be fixed, while the Real ID system can. However, you can't opt-in to a milk allergy like you can opt-in to this new feature.
Because of potential security flaws I do not install Windows Service Packs within the first 2 or 3 months, it's not that Microsoft slacked off in preventing zero-day attacks from happening, they did not foresee that particular vulnerability. The result is the same, you can be compromised, but not everyone who installs the lastest Service Pack immediately succumbs to a zero-day attack/exploit.
I'm not saying that Blizzard shouldn't have foreseen the potential privacy flaws, but there are parallels. Yes, the system needs changing to be the cohesion-building tool they want it to be, but also, not everyone who uses it from day one is going to be attacked/stalked/etc.
Also, if this was the Blizzard forums I was replying to, I might actually be on the Trashwalk's side, but since Wowhead can't do anything about the system, I'm playing Devil's Advocate.
Post by
seebs
No one ever claimed that
everyone
using it would be attacked, stalked, whatever... Just that it's going to be a massive increase in frequency.
Post by
334295
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rilgon
Have any of those people, in the time you've known them, ever trusted someone you didn't trust? Are you completely sure that none of them will ever accept a friend request from, or give a friend request to, someone you don't trust with your personal information? Remember,
all friends of friends get this information
.
Which of those people do you think you would normally feel comfortable sharing your WoW login information with? (Remember that giving someone else your login information is a bannable offense...)
OH NOES MY REAL NAME, WHICH MOST OF MY FRIENDS OF MY FRIENDS ALREADY KNOW
YOU KNOW, BECAUSE REAL ID DOESN'T BROADCAST YOUR ACCOUNT INFORMATION
If you are using Real ID, your mutual Real ID friends, as well as their Real ID friends, will be able to see your first and last name (the name registered to the Battle.net account). You will also be able to see the first and last name of your Real ID friends and their Real ID friends.
Your Battle.net account name (your email address) is not displayed to other players through the Real ID friends list.
Post by
seebs
OH NOES MY REAL NAME, WHICH MOST OF MY FRIENDS OF MY FRIENDS ALREADY KNOW
Do they? Not the case for me. I have many friends who live in different states or cities from me, who have dozens of friends there that I've never met and probably never will.
Furthermore, keep in mind that it's not just the name, but the connection between the name and specific characters...
And again, I am not saying that Real ID broadcasts your account information, but everyone you ever mark as a RealID friend means that one or the other of you gave out your login name.
Post by
xaratherus
OH NOES MY REAL NAME, WHICH MOST OF MY FRIENDS OF MY FRIENDS ALREADY KNOW
Never mind, not worth the effort. If you're comfortable with it, go for it; I'd take odds that you're the exception, not the rule.
Oh, and by the by, caps lock isn't cruise control for cool.
Post by
613981
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Frames
Control your own security. Don't expect Blizzard to do it for you.
I would, Blizzard did not give us any privacy settings.
Sure they did. They gave you the privacy setting of "EVERY REAL ID CONNECTION IS A TWO-WAY AGREEMENT AND IF YOU ENTER INTO ONE WITH SOMEONE YOU KNEW WHAT IT ENTAILED".
If you don't want someone to know your name, don't give them your Real ID or accept one from them. I am giving mine to my girlfriend, my younger brother, and my best RL friend,
and that's it,
because I get how the system was designed.
That is such a cop out. In other words, don't use the system. YOU ARE correct. that is the NO BRINER answer. WE ALL KNOW THIS, this does not solve any issues to good software design.
Stop using capslock damnit.
Post by
jynxycat
I agree with Trashwalk100%
I too am a software developer and I have posted previously about this issue.
Anybody that says "Just don't use it" or "It's only meant for your RL friends" just isn't seeing the big picture.
Of course the "solution" (if you can call it that) is to not use the system, but what kind of solution is that? A pathetic one is the answer.
"We have this awesome new system that gives you all these great features. You can use it with the 2 people you know IRL that play WoW and THATS ALL! Oh and anyone they add to their list that you don't know can see your name."
Excellent use of resources, money well spent blizz.
Any system that has the POTENTIAL of being misused, such as this one, needs to be designed in a way that will minimise any possible threat. Do you think that all 11M subscribers are fully aware of all the issues with this system?
Can you simply assume that everyone will use it 100% as "intended"?
When designing any system such as this you should put in as many privacy controls as possible (within reason), while keeping the interface simple and straightforward.
Trashwalk has suggested some reasonable privacy controls.
To trashwalk's first solution I'd also add an optional custom name that you can type in. This name doesn't need to be unique in any way since it is just some text stored in your battle.net account and just used as a lookup value. So no Fred12345 necessary.
I'd also add an option to allow us to opt-out of the friend of friend feature. If its selected then when a friend of friend list is being built for someone, it will skip your name. One line of code there, very simple.
Oh, and I'm not sure if anyone has said this yet, but before they do:
Don't say "well go post on the blizzard forums".
The official post on this issue is over 90 pages long, with NO blue response. That is 90 pages of concerns.
So it's clear to me that blizzard either don't care, or are under instructions to keep quiet on the issue.
Wall of text crits for 5.
You know I can find out anyone's name that I want in the phonebook? You know that like 30 million people can see your name on Facebook?
Guess what.
YOUR LIFE GOES ON.
Blizzard should just stop supporting this game. All people do is whine like someone just shot their damn dog.
Post by
613981
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rilgon
I simply can't understand why anybody would be against blizzard adding a few extra privacy controls.
Not against it.
I'm against people freaking out about the way the system works, which is basically directly in line with the intended design of the system.
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