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Stoneclaw Totem
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Post by
Archael
Mage - Iceblock, invisibility
Paladin - Bubble
Rogue - Vanish, Glyphed Cloak of Shadows
Hunter - Feign Death, Deterrence
Deathknight - Antimagic Shield - Frostbound Fortitude
Warlock - Demonic Teleport, Sacrifice(bubble)
Priest - Dispersion, PW:Shield
Druid - bearform/ Barkskin <getting a vanish in Cata>
Warrior - Shield Wall
Shaman - Shamanistic rage, glyphed stoneclaw
SO In order from top to bottom this is how I rate the spells/talents given to the classes for direct "oh, god" moments. Abilities that either offer moments of complete invulnerability or that allow the targeted player to no longer be targeted.
Mages having both is crazy... so it goes at the top. Paladin can bubble and still keep dropping serious nuke albeit half as much as unbubbled. rogues can Vanish but it's massively buggy and Cloak of shadows lends them plate armor almost for a short time if it's glyphed and huge defense against magic.
Hunters Feign is massive for pre-emptive defensive maneuvers and Deterrence is awesome if used correctly.
Deathknight are a class that can't actually take zero damage i don't think but I know while survival cooldowns are up they're hard as hell to kill.
Warlocks have a massive gap opener that is even more usefull than blink
Priests have to have a good bit of spell power to make their defensive spells effective i'm pretty sure (of all my alts my priest is my lowest...)I know that Druid in bearform with barkskin and frenzied regeneration up is one hellova tough hombre but it's not a 100% damage absorb nor a target drop (the proposed vanish in cata will give them this but that's Cata... i'm trying to remain in the present)
Warriors again with Shield wall... Similar to bears but output goes WAY down when you put a warrior on the defensive..so they sorta just stop being useful. And last Shaman. Shamanistic Rage and Stone claw totem. Shamanistic rage is something like Shield wall that is usable without a shield and sorta puts you up to plate level for a bit and the glyphed stoneclaw, while useful, is still quite lacklustre.
I think it would be nice if Stoneclaw was a bit more interactive
perhaps a glyph that makes it do more or a talent (though i think the idea i have in mind would be awesome for all trees)
Stoneclaw totem should take the target of anyone targeting the shaman that casts it
something like a taunt that forces the target to drop off the shaman and onto the totem.
Even if this removed the stun effect of it i think it'd be useful. But WITH the stun effect....mmmm giggity
Post by
Mesoforte
I think they should just make the damage shield scale with your ap/spellpower or health pool. That would be nice.
That and make the glyph version baseline instead of glyphed.
Even better, make it a shield spell that you could put on specific targets that could absorb damage equal to a percentage your sp/ap...and then add in a spell called Penance.
Post by
Onijitsu
To be fair, we also wear mail. (Which is better than what Mages, Priests and Warlocks wear)
Mages do have both. But, they are the "glass cannons" of the game. It doesn't take much to kill a mage. Their only recourse is to kill you faster and/or escape through one means or another. (including, CC'ing you)
Similarly, if Warlocks didn't have fear (And, arguably, the self-healing of Affliction spec) then they would not be PvP viable.
Post by
178827
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Post by
Dhonorga
tha fact shamans wear mail means nothing: and the question it's very simple: is it easier to kill a priest or a shaman? an affly lock or a shaman? a mage or a shaman?
The answer is always the same: a shaman!
Why? don't they wear mail? don't they have grounding totem? can't they use frostshock and ghost wolf against melee?
Well: all important healings are casted in at least 1.5 sec(this mean extreme vunerability to interrupt abilities); no way to reduce damage taken (except stoneclaw totem which is weak and have CD); the only way to remain alive is to heal,so what if you find a MS class? You are simply !@#$ed:. GW too it's not the spell that solves all these problems, because when a rogue or a war is on you it's really hard to use it; Riptide is a &*!@ (better to have it that not to have it of course but healings from it suck). And let's mention the case that your partner is 15% HP: i'm a priest so i shield him and use penance to bring him to 40% HP, i'm a paladin, holy shock or if the situation is really dangerous i can bubble him (but this is a CD): i'm a shaman with NS on CD, Riptide then i start casting LHW, when the cast ends it's too late: arena lost; any spell i could use was not enough strong to stay 1,5 sec (GCD) inactive...noone can save my partner :(
These reasons make the shaman the worst PVP healer in Wotlk: nothing more to say.
Post by
193698
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Archael
Make no mistake... Killing a shaman is easy.. I do arena on a rogue with a druid partner and we simply vaporize shaman of any spec. Enhancement puts up the most fight durability wise but meh... Shaman are chumps and free kills for almost any class. Mail armor means nothing. Resilience helps but still there's no way to completely get a breather and get caught up like some other classes. I don't know... Maybe blizz is still beating down shaman for being such madmen at the end of vanilla.
Post by
Onijitsu
tha fact shamans wear mail means nothing: and the question it's very simple: is it easier to kill a priest or a shaman? an affly lock or a shaman? a mage or a shaman?
The answer is always the same: a shaman!
Why? don't they wear mail? don't they have grounding totem? can't they use frostshock and ghost wolf against melee?
Well: all important healings are casted in at least 1.5 sec(this mean extreme vunerability to interrupt abilities); no way to reduce damage taken (except stoneclaw totem which is weak and have CD); the only way to remain alive is to heal,so what if you find a MS class? You are simply !@#$ed:. GW too it's not the spell that solves all these problems, because when a rogue or a war is on you it's really hard to use it; Riptide is a &*!@ (better to have it that not to have it of course but healings from it suck). And let's mention the case that your partner is 15% HP: i'm a priest so i shield him and use penance to bring him to 40% HP, i'm a paladin, holy shock or if the situation is really dangerous i can bubble him (but this is a CD): i'm a shaman with NS on CD, Riptide then i start casting LHW, when the cast ends it's too late: arena lost; any spell i could use was not enough strong to stay 1,5 sec (GCD) inactive...noone can save my partner :(
These reasons make the shaman the worst PVP healer in Wotlk: nothing more to say.
Let's clarify. Your figure of 1.5 seconds is with zero haste. The idea is that we want haste, in order to make our cast-times shorter. Riptide is not worthless... it is more powerful than LHW. And, it modifies any other healing spells to be stronger in different ways. LHW will most likely crit, and proc Ancestral Fortitude as well. HW will cast in a much shorter period of time.
We also have Earth shield, which is instant-cast, and can help to both reduce casting issues and to reactively mitigate incoming damage on someone.
And, we can dispell anything but a magical effect at present. (3 out of the 4 main effects: Poisons, Diseases and Curses) We can drop Tremor Totem, reducing the effectiveness of both Warlocks and Priests, when trying to CC ourselves and our friends.
More than anything, it seems that we Shamans need to think ahead as much as possible. And, using our totems and various other spells, try to create conditions which are more favorable to our side winning.
I'm not arguing that PvP is cake for us. But, I am pointing out that your argument is a bit skewed to present us as being worthless in PvP.
Post by
Dhonorga
PvP it's kinda zero haste for resto shamans; Riptide is not wothless but it's joke if you do a comparizon with holy shock (which is another istant heal with 6 seconds of CD), it helps with next spells but its healing effect it's crap.
earth shield too won't help you when your partner is about 15% HP...
I'm not saying shaman has not PvP utilities; the point of my intervention is that in "oh god" moments a shaman has not spells as strong as other classes to save the situation(except NS that is a CD). It's not always possible to prevent every situation.
OT: i've just lost an arena against an arms war: he killed me without using pummel charge or intercept: his damage was simply bigger then my healings. I saw my life going down without doing anything but spamming healings(and i have quite good PvP gear)...is this right blizzard?
P.S. Riptide is weaker than LHW, just to say a Riptide is kinda 3K and a LHW is kinda 5.5K (on my PvP geared shaman)
Post by
Onijitsu
PvP it's kinda zero haste for resto shamans;
Wait, you're saying that all of your haste disappears when that arena door goes up? I'd open a ticket, ASAP.
--
I don't disagree that we can have a very difficult time under some circumstances. I don't even claim to be the expert on Shaman PvP. I'm simply trying to reframe the discussion, so we are talking on a more factual and less hyperbolic basis.
Personally, I would love it if we could have more spells which were instant-cast (like HoTs), channeled or had a shorter cast time. Including, if PvP gear provided that kind of a benefit to our current set of spells. In PvE, it's frustrating as well, that we have to stack haste so insanely in order to stay competitive with other healers.
I'm also trying to bear in mind here that we are a walking buffet table, and can bring buffs to a group which could otherwise require a whole bevvy of other individuals in order to have the same effect. Perhaps Blizzard considers this a trade-off.
Out of curiosity, what amount of haste do you have in your PvP gear. And, have you considered re-gemming/enchanting for more? I'm also curious how much spell power you work with... which would, naturally, increase both your healing and offensive capabilities.
Post by
341987
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
193698
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
178827
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Dhonorga
I know how to play a shaman, i know how to use Frost shock and GW, but i know also that a MS effect is something awful for an healer with no shields...Riptide does 1.5K (with MS): do you think a war does less then 1.5k dmg in 1,5 sec?
Also, to wear PvE gear in arena is something really dangerous: when your partner cannot protect you and you get silenced or stunned only stamina and resilience will save you from death.
I haven't mad skill but i think i'm not a noob.
Here is my armory:
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Zenedar&cn=Dreiblumen
Any helpful comment is welcomed
Post by
178827
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
378029
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Dhonorga
The warrior shouldn't be doing damage to you if you play it right. He's got 2-3 seconds whenever he charges/intercepts you, and that's all. Of course, it depends on how well you play your Shaman and how well he can play his own char.
Through GW you can practically ignore Hamstrig, and drop a heal or two when you're safely out of range.
you can do what you want but with MS on you 2 heals are not enough; to stay away from the war (even to let MS fade) it's not so easy if u consider that we was in Ring of Valor (hard arena to keep melees far from you), i was purging the druid and frost shocking him too; and i had water shield on me too; to use earth shield all time means to go oom in a short time. This has been the simply sequence: Intercept, Mortal strike, Earth shield on me, healing, healing, healing, bladestorm, healing, healing healing, dead. Going away with GW in that moment surely leaded to faster death.
I can give further details but i think this is not the right place to do it.
Tormace is right: shaman requires skill, and i'm sure my way to play it will get better with time...i've been playing it only from 2 months: i have hopes ^^
anyway i think this thread would be interesting for the discussion:
http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=157662
Post by
Meggie
However, what does not require skill is Ambush > Dismantle.
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