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10.2.7
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Block Value / Critical Block Mechanics
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Post by
Porcell
- Gonna check if the Block Value gained trough
gets affected by
- Gonna check if the Block Value gained trough
Charred Glyph
gets affected by
- Gonna check if the Block Value gained trough
Shield Block
gets affected by
TLDR:
Block Value from Strength is (Strenth/2)-10, rounded down. This number is reflected in the strength tooltip.
Block Value from Strength + Gear (and then modified by talents) is shown on the Block % tooltip. It is calculated as Strength BV (from Strength Tooltip) + Shield Block Value (from your shield and +BV items). This number is the "base" amount, which is multiplied by 130% if you have Shield Mastery, 140% if you have Shield Mastery + Glyph of Blocking active, 230% if you have Shield Mastery and Shield Block activated, and 240% if you have Shield Mastery, Glyph of Blocking active, and Shield Block active.
Whenever you activate a Block Value enhancing effect, it will update your Block % tooltip to show the correct amount.
If Critical Block triggers, it will stop Block % Tooltip BV * 2 damage.
The blow is just math showing that the tooltips are accurate and verifying how the modifiers work together. Finally at the very bottom is the testing to verify that the amount shown on the Block Tooltip is in fact how much damage is blocked, and to verify that a critical block is in fact 2x the mount shown on the tooltip.
-------------------------------------------
Naked: 184 Strength. Tooltip says Increased Block Value by 82 (184/2-10), Block Tooltip says Stops 107 Damage (which is 82*130% = 106.6)
Add gloves with 92 Strength on it. Strength now says 281 (184 + 97) and Increased Block Value by 130 (281/2-10). Block Tooltip says Stops 169 Damage (130*130%=169).
Add belt with 120 Strength on it. Strength now says 408 (184 + 224) and Increased Block Value by 194 (408/2-10). Block Tooltip says Stops 252 Damage (194*130%=252.2)
One last gear check to make sure that character sheet tooltips can be trusted, I took off all gear except for my shield, which has 90 Strength, 248 Block, and an additional 147 Block Value. Strength tooltip says 279 (184+95) and Increased Block Value by 129 (279/2-10). The Block Tooltip says Stops 681 damage. (248+147+129)*130%=681.2.
Okay, so now we know that all of the character sheet references are correct, except for the 10 block value less than expected from Strength.
Next is Glyph of Blocking. With just my shield equipped, (681 Block from the Blocking Tooltip), when I activite Glyph of Blocking it raises my Block Value on my Block Tooltip to 734. Glyph of Blocking increases BV by 10%. Block Value modifiers are added first, then calculated, so this would be 524(the unmodified block value)*(130%+110%)= 524*140% = 733.6
Same setup, just a shield, 681 Block Tooltip. Activate Shield Block and the tooltip changes to 1205 damage. 524*230%=1205.2
Next is same setup (524 base, 681 Block Tooltip), with Glyph of Blocking activated and then Shield Block hit. Block Tooltip now says 1258. This is 524*240% = 1257.6
Lastly, let me put on all my gear. I have nothing on that procs strength.
Strength says 1853 (184+1669) [1575 strength from gear * 106% = 1669.5) and Increases Block Value by 916 (1853/2-10). My Block Tooltip says 1704 damage blocked. This is 916 from Strength, 248 from Shield and 147 from +BV on the shield, (916+248+147)*130% = 1311*130% = 1704.3
Putting up Glyph of Blocking, my Block Tooltip changes to 1835. 1311 (base amount) * 140% (Block Mastery 30% + GoB 10%) = 1835.4
Next with only Shield Block, my Block Tooltip changes to 3015. 1311 (base amount) * 230% (Block Mastery 30% + ShieldBlock 100%) = 3015.3
And lastly with Glyph of Blocking and Shield Block, the Block Tooltip is 3146. 1311 (base) * 240% (BM + GoB + SB) = 3146.4
All this work is done to show exactly how Block Value is shown on the Tooltip, to ensure all of the sources of Block Value do contribute, and to show that the Block Value tooltip number is Trustworthy.
The final step is to find a mob to beat on me. I had a hard time finding something that could hit me hard enough so I stripped down my gear to Shield Only. That is, 524 Base (681 Tooltip). I actually got the perfect series of hits. First I got a 1362, which would be a Critical Block of 681*2. Then I got a 681 Block, I hit Shield Block, got a 1205 block (which would be 524 base * 230% = 1205 block), and then immediately after got a 2410 block (Shield Block and Shield Mastery of 1205 block, and Critical Block doubling that number to 2410 damage absorbed).
Then I tried it with Glyph of Blocking up and Shield Block. I first blocked 1258 (524 base *240% = 1257.6), then critical Blocked for 2516 (1258*2). Then Glyph of Blocking wore off (but Shield Block was still up) and I critical Blocked for 2410.
Here are screenshots of the various blocks, since I know you like screenshots.
Shield Mastery + Crit Block
http://nl.tinypic.com/r/jtm73k/6
SM, SM+SB, SM+SB+CritBlock
http://nl.tinypic.com/r/dlnihw/6
SM+SB+GoB + CritBlock
http://nl.tinypic.com/r/awtagm/6
Post by
Squishalot
You know, if you take the time to clean it up, this could make a really nice sticky. Good to know that it all works as intended.
Post by
615440
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
marklartank
at level 79 and half way to 80, block is pretty awesome. in naxx10, block is pretty awesome. but that's about where it ends. in raids after that, incoming damage is high enough that you end up blocking a very small portion of that damage, and it's not reliable.
there are fights where saving shield block for a particular time can help reduce the spike damage a bit. however, stacking your gear for maximum shield block effect is a poor strategy. when shield block is not up, it's like avoidance (only worse).
the issue is really not whether block is good or not, it's what you have to give up to get more block. it's ends up being a very rare case where that's a good tradeoff.
just to give one example, tanking festergut on 25 normal, he hits for between 25-30k on a 1 second swing timer. would you rather have a
chance
to block a few thousand damage or some more armor and stamina?
Post by
Squishalot
Well, how difficult is it to build an 'unhittable' (i.e. 102.4% miss / dodge / parry / block) set? I know Paladins can hit one fairly easily due to the relatively constant uptime on Holy Shield, but is it that hard for a Warrior? (Honestly don't know, just curious.)
If you can build up 100% passive block, then you'll have around 3k BV passively, 6k critical block, and any extra with Shield Block every 40 secs.
I know that 3k isn't very much when people are hitting you for 30k, but it's the equivalent of going from 60% armor to 64% armor - noone's going to write it off and say it's 'a very small portion'. All mitigation helps.
Edit: Considering that people equip armor trinkets, it's worth considering whether BV bonuses provide a more effective mitigant than armor, item value for item value.
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
marklartank
Well, how difficult is it to build an 'unhittable' (i.e. 102.4% miss / dodge / parry / block) set? I know Paladins can hit one fairly easily due to the relatively constant uptime on Holy Shield, but is it that hard for a Warrior? (Honestly don't know, just curious.)
i have an unhittable set, and i gave up a LOT of stats to build it. i think it's at least 10k less hp (unbuffed), not to mention much less armor.
Post by
615440
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
615440
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Porcell
You know, I'd be with you on the benefit of block rating and block value, IF there were high level items with those stats. Except for a small handful of items, they stopped making Block Rating / Block Value items back in Tier 8 and Ulduar.
I have an unhittable set, with the majority of the items being 213 from Naxx or 226 from Ulduar. It's perfect for Anub 25 Hardmode (necessary even), but it's not good in ICC. It's not good because it's low level gear. It has so much less health, strength, hit, and armor than current tier items. If I walked into ICC wearing my unhittable set I'd get destroyed.
If I could get the armor value of Tier 10 level gear, combined with the post-mitigation damage reduction of Block, I'd snap it up in a second. I would give away ALL of my avoidance to get 60% or 70% block chance. Of course even more block chance (like Paladins get with Holy Shield) would be nice, but I would seriously take 60% block, 10% miss, and 30% hits over my current 10% miss, 12% dodge, 22% parry, and 12% block.
It just comes down to how damage is in ICC, and how healing is. Healers have always liked predictable damage, and there has always been overhealing, but in ToC the bosses were hitting SO hard that avoidance was critical in assuring the tanks were less likely to take a string of un-avoided hits.
In ICC the damage is fast and less, and thereby more constistant.
Looking at my character, if I could tweak my gear, I'd keep all my defense rating and trade in my 805 dodge rating and 354 parry rating and take about 800 Block Rating and like 550 Block Value. That would give me ~10% miss, ~10% dodge, ~10% parry, and 70% block. With the high armor from ICC producing pretty low mitigated hits, and then taking a flat amount off of that number from Block; you could think of it as a permanent Priest Bubble.
But alas, this is not how ICC gear is itemized. Downgrading to BR/BV gear is NOT an option because of the loss of armor and stamina. The loss in armor alone is enough to negate any effect that the Block would have. Dropping down two tiers worth in item level would drop your armor so much. Just to throw a number at it, you may get to the point where you are taking an average of 5000 damage off each attack, but because of the armor you are going to be facing 35k attacks instead of 25k attacks.
Post by
Squishalot
You know, I'd be with you on the benefit of block rating and block value, IF there were high level items with those stats. Except for a small handful of items, they stopped making Block Rating / Block Value items back in Tier 8 and Ulduar.
...
In ICC the damage is fast and less, and thereby more constistant.
That's why I've constantly argued since ICC was released that it should have been a boon for Warriors, where avoidance is less key and more damage can be mitigated through blocks, and Warriors have the best potential blocking mitigation, due to Critical Block. I could never understand why people were calling me a moron for suggesting such things. But what I didn't factor in was the elimination of any blocking gear in ICC. (Then again, I don't think they were either, they were all brought up on the ToC diet of 'avoidance is king'.
Oh well, come Cataclysm, I think there's functionality for some personalisation of stats on gear, so it's a potential thought moving forward, at least.
Thanks for the feedback.
Post by
233098
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
615440
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Sakkura
The reason there is no/very few items in ICC with BR (Block Rating), is cause Paladin Tanks & Warrior Tanks would become to strong with it.
Possibly. The main problem, though, is that Blizzard have been unable to balance block properly and gave up on it during WotLK. That's why there's basically no block gear in later WotLK raids, and also why block is being completely redesigned for Cataclysm.
The way block is designed now makes it invariably either underpowered or overpowered, or in fact both at the same time (under different circumstances).
Block
might
have been overpowered in ICC, but then they'd just have nerfed it. They didn't want to continue this cycle of nerfs and buffs so they simply scrapped it and waited for Cataclysm to fix it. It's sad that it has taken them so long to notice a problem that has been obvious for so long, and called to their attention numerous times.
Post by
302982
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Porcell
Blizz did buff amount of block value gained from strength before scrapping em off gear.. So that there would be one less useless stat lying around. Block gear was never popular to begin with, you have to admit.
It wasn't "popular" because of the way mechanics were. It was an ever escalating problem. People valued Avoidance because you took no damage, so they stacked it (on gear, not necessarily on gems), which led to the situation we had in ToC. ToC had tank avoidance so high that bosses had to hit EXTREMELY hard in order for there to be any tank risk. And thus with bosses hitting extremely hard, Blocking was dubbed even more worthless ("who cares if you block 2k off a 30k swing").
Which again led to ICC dodge Debuff. They had to do something to get tanks hittable so they could pull back on the boss damage. Tanks getting hit more leads to Block being valuable.
The problem I always had with warrior blocking is that it seemed kind of pointless if you still had Hits on the table. The goal is to minimize your maximum spike damage. If I could be sure I'd block 2k, 4k, or 8k (SB+CB) off every attack, I'd go for it. But if I'm only blocking 2k, 4k, 8k on 25% of the incoming blows, and the other 25% are hits, on average I'm only blocking 1k, 2k, 4k, AND on those full hits I'm still taking the maximum spike damage.
Meh. Whatever, a few more months of this and the mechanics will change, so it's really a waste of breath to be discussing this.
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