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Bringing back rockbiter weapon and shaman tankage
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181706
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181706
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307852
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Post by
jafar
The one thing I never see addressed by people suggesting shaman tanking in future content is this: How do you fit tanking talents into the three already existing talent trees? They would probably go into the enhancement tree, but then how would you balance these talents/skills with existing talents and skills? You would end up with grossly overpowered super enhancement shamans. The remedy for this would be to completely change enhancement from physical dps to tanking, but that is
very
unlikely to happen. Sorry, but this is nothing more than a pipe dream =(
Well druids can do it.
I'd really like if Shamanas could tank. I doesn't even comes to my mind rerolling and after trying paladins and druids I ended up not liking either the healing (paladin) or tanking (druid) aspect of those classes. I have a warrior tank too and I love it, but, as we all know, no healing for warrs.
That being said i am completely positive it isn't gonna happen and have settled for it.
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129353
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346822
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Post by
Autocthon
Let me think here about the changes to enhancement...
Losing Intelligence on gear? Check.
Gaining Stamina and Armor? Check.
Potentially Rockbiter is a tanking imbue? Awesome.
Getting DPS Masteries? Sad but true.
What can I conclude form this? If Rockbiter becomes the tanking imbue then the shaman using it loses a good portion of their damage. When tanking though, shich would you have? RB/WF or RB/FT? If you go RB/WF you have to have one or the other on your off hand, probably RB. This means you lose FT, which in turn means your spells and (newly and amazingly buffed) Lava Lash are now considerably weaker. If you go RB/FT then you'll retain Lava Lash's buffs and spell power but... you lose the ~40% (theoretical) bonus of WF to your auto attacks. Maybe the two choices work out to the same TPS, maybe they don't. Looking at the Enhance tree it looks far from really finished.
If Blizzard has a wild idea and make Maelstrom Weapon the Mastery bonus for enhancement then they will have more than enough room (after some much needed consolidation of talents) to give Enhancement the option of tanking or DPS'ing. By the very nature of needing a weapon imbue to do either they curtail DPS level output of damage from a tank, while allowing DPS style TPS progression potentially negating the need for Enhance to gain the TPS buff that other tanks need (which is why the buff's level of effect is in question for Feral Tanking, since they use DPS gear and so tend to 'keep up' a little better than other tanks). If Rockbiter makes it to beta, if it has a good reception in Alpha Blizzard may rethink Shaman Tanking, but at the very least if RB makes it to beta then we will see Shaman capable of off-tanking in emergencies.
If Shaman finally regain their ability to tank I expect that they'll have Talent Bonus and Mastery changes to better buff them for BOTH roles.
Something like...
Damage
Melee Haste
Maelstrom Weapon
Being their tree bonuses, granting Shaman multiple buttons to turn to keep them balanced as well as freeing potentially 5 talent points in the tree to be made into tanking bonuses.
I also fully expect that Shaman will be DW tanks, we are currently balanced in DPS through that and all our abilities are based on DW'ing. Instead of trying to balance around S&B tanking and DW DPS'ing it would be much simpler to balance around Talent choice. Tanking talents look like PvP talents to DPS, and DPS talents (burst) tend to look like PvP talents to a tank.
Allow two possible branches in late Enhancement which differentiate the Shaman as either DPs or Tank. Make each path require a large investiture of talent points, making it unnatractive to "double dip" into both styles outside of PvP play. Then determine what imbue combo (possibly RB/RB even, though more likely RB/FB) to use as the Tanking combo, and cause certain spells/talents/abilities to be modal based on which imbues you have on.
Also... DW DK Frost Tanks are going to be gone... I'm hoping for DW Shaman Frost Tanks to see their rise.
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307852
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Post by
Autocthon
Remember that there are multiple ways to balance out and parcel out the DPS vs. Tanking abilities. Modal talents are one of them.
Forcing you to have to focus on one over the other is a second.
It is entirely feasible for Enhancement to be made a hybrid Tank/DPS spec. Difficult, true. But they may simply work on allowing us to off-tank in emergencies (Rockbiter+FT or FB and throw in some FS with the usual ES's; spec for reduced CD on shocks) while they figure out whether they want to seriously allow Shaman Tanking as a supported spec.
It is not possible to determine if something is OP before you've even seen it in action. I can sit here and say that the Druid changes in resto will make them OP because they'll have a tree form that can put out some DAMAGE while rolling HoT's and become practically invincible.
In Cataclysm PvP will be moving away from burst for the most part. Shaman might still be able to rapidly eat some large pools of health with the right procs, but they won't be global'ing anyone. I see Tanking as a feasible possibility, just because some people THINK that it might make Shaman too powerful in PvP doesn't mean it will.
Simply make getting all the Tanking and all the DPS almost mutually exclusive, by making them dependent on modal states (Whether you are using certain weapon enchants for one, or possibly whether you are using a new type of shield spell) and otherwise making it difficult to get BOTH. Honestly, just because the initial release of DK's was a fiasco doesn't mean every "hybrid tree" will automatically be OP.
Post by
228908
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Post by
Meggie
Two other options is to
- buff the 'tank' earth elemental to the level where it can tank raid bosses. This way tank spec can eventually be some kind of a resto spec.
- enhance tank by dual wielding shields. A lot of armor, extra block and low damage. Rockbiter becomes a main hand
shield
enchant.
Post by
Kylishrak
Shaman are just not built for it, they have nothing interesting going for them to be tanks.
Rogues/Warlocks/Hunters are better candidates -- I would personally love to see Rogue dodge-tanks or Demo tanks that "take turns" between Meta tanking and their Felguard/Voidwalker taking the hits.
Warlock tanks Anub'arak in ToC25
http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=132843&stream=&h=af6aee712647f92a04bc6f19730184a6
Warlock (Coincidentally from my server) tanks Patchwerk in Naxx25
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyZS5ZRMrvM
Warlock tanks Sartharion in OS10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEHfrNlxReA
Voidwalker tanks Sartharion +3 drakes in OS25
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wW_ct096Lk0
If only Blizz liked us more, we could go on with this =/
Post by
Atik
- enhance tank by dual wielding shields. A lot of armor, extra block and low damage. Rockbiter becomes a main hand
shield
enchant.
Did you just say dual-wielding shields?
Slice me up a cut of that action with a side order of Uberfries and some awesomesauce, please!
Post by
FloppyKitten
I dont know if anyone actually thought about it, but isnt the talent tree for shaman in Cata already on wowhead.
There arent any tanking talents and even more so less than before, although not set in stone I cant see it happening, would be cool, but unlikely.
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129353
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