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What are we doing wrong?
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Post by
obiwaynekenobi
Yeah, I think I'll see how things go in another week or two. TO be fair I'm the primary OT, not the MT (Warrior is MT - her gear score is like 5.8K and she really knows how to play her class). For the last run, someone with a weaker prot spec (I'm not sure if it's his main spec, I think it is) was asked to be the OT instead of me, because I have a DPS spec and his only other spec was Holy. It wasn't a huge deal, just kind of... hurt, I guess, because I had thought I was the guild's primary off-tank, or MT if the warrior wasn't available, as I'm the best geared (besides the Warr) with a tank spec. The other guy was
qualified
; he had good enough gear, it was more a matter of him "taking my spot" simply because I could use my off-spec, while unless he was tanking he'd have to sit out, when I've been the primary off-tank for over a month now and that's what I signed up to do with the guild.
Basically... the guild said they were lacking a dedicated second tank, and I joined to fill that role. But, it seems as though they have quite a few people with tanking specs, whether main or off, and the only factor is their time to be on. I don't want to be the "go to guy" for that second tank spot except if one of the other people happens to sign up for the raid, too. Now, maybe I'm making a mountain out of a mole hill and this isn't as big a deal; after all I did end up getting my tank spot back and, because the warrior had to log, was MT in ICC for the first time. Just one of those things that nag at the back of my mind because I dislike my DPS spec, and the only reason I even had it was just in case I for certain fights where only one tank is needed (Rotface, for example, or Faction Champs in ToC). Now, maybe that makes me selfish but I was specifically looking for a guild that wanted a dedicated tank, because I enjoy tanking and I think I'm pretty darn good at it, so I can't help but feel just a little deceived, although it was only one time that this happened so it might not be that big of an issue.
I think it boils down to goals.. as someone else said. I'm friends with people in this guild, but the more I think about it the more it's not the right fit. I don't want to use my DPS spec for raiding; I don't enjoy being a DPS. I like tanking. I want to progress, at least somewhat, you know? We don't have to go 12/12 every week but I'd like some progression instead of doing 4/12 and saying how great a job everyone did and how great we are for doing that. I want to be in a core raid group, and be a core tank, not just another person with a tank spec who might or might not get to tank depending on who else signs up.
Post by
Davidson
You guys 1 shot everything, but called it after 4/12? How long did 4 take? I can't imagine scheduled raids lasting 30-40 mins...
Post by
Lorkin
With their dps, it's probably like 1.5 - 2 hours to clear the first wing. He did mention a lot of people going afk a lot for no reason. Maybe small bladders?
Post by
obiwaynekenobi
Let's see. We started at roughly 8pm EST (30 minutes late...), we downed Saurfang at just about 10:45 EST, and like three people had to log because they had work early the next morning. We spent about.. I don't know 20 minutes before Marrowgar as two people were having major lag issues and eventually had to log, so we had to bring in replacements, and then occasional 5-10 minute breaks in between (before LDW, after LDW, before Gunship, before Saurfang)
Which actually brings me to another issue. Every week when we raid, we only allot like 2.5 or 3 hours for it, but remember we only raid one night a week and we don't extend the raid lockout because we can't agree on a time to continue (when everyone in the present group will be on again). So I don't logically see HOW we can progress, when it takes us the entire allotted time to get through the first wing, and we can't figure out a good day to continue.
Post by
447547
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Lorkin
You should definately NOT extend lockouts, just try to continue later in the week. If you guys raid every week on Monday before the reset, that would be difficult to continue then.
Post by
obiwaynekenobi
I just spoke to one of the officers and raised (partially) my concerns about our progression. I basically said that we should have two or so groups, one for actual progression with the "best of the best" and another for gearing up. The answer I got was, pretty much:
Progression will come, but we want progression with everyone in the guild as a whole, not just the better geared players
Maybe I'm just a noob and don't know what I'm talking about, but isn't progression
supposed
to be for the better geared players (at first, at least)? *shrug*
Post by
447547
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Badguy
You're going to end up with no good players at all.
People that are capable of doing the mechanics correctly on Rotface don't like spending weeks wiping to Rotface while bad players learn how to strafe 3 inches.
Post by
41852
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Lorkin
You're going to end up with no good players at all.
People that are capable of doing the mechanics correctly on Rotface don't like spending weeks wiping to Rotface while bad players learn how to strafe 3 inches.
Yup that's what happens to guilds like this. It's sorta also the downfall of the public school system. If everyone in the class understands something and there is one kid struggling, generally that kid gets extra help outside the classroom (tutors, left behind a grade, etc). If the teacher slows down the lessons of everyone in the class for that one noob that just doesn't understand that 2+2=4, it's just fail all over it.
The good players will eventually have enough of your leaders trying to pull dead weight along. They will move onto other guilds where skill and attendance actually matter, not that you're buddies with the leaders. Good guilds reward skilled players that are reliable. It sounds like your guild is run by kids that invite people to raid based on the buddy system.
You can waste a few weeks figuring this out or just cut loose now and hunt for a better guild. Just note that if they don't have a clue now, chances are they aren't going to get one in the new future.
Post by
Tritoch
Yeah, I entirely agree. Doing only Saurfang per week without even trying Rot or Fester, as some pugs do, seems so incredibly counter productive. Better to wait and do it with some friends than get your eight (nine, if you do what's-her-face, the vrykul chick in the hallway) frosts and call it a week.
Post by
517094
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Cambo
If your shaman is elemental, ensure his Thunderstorm is NOT glyphed. If a blood beast is not dead yet, he can TS it back to the platform and the ranged can have more time to dps it. TS will cause aggro for the shaman, so the BB will come back to that player, so no danger of it aggroing a melee player.
The blood beasts are important, it is imperative that all ranged switch to them ASAP, and if melee are capable of slowing them, then they should. If ranged continue to DPS the boss, they need a grilling and a kick up the butt.
I've seen a DK tank Saurfang, and when the BB spawns he snares it with chains of ice, then continues to tank the boss.
Teamwork!
Post by
obiwaynekenobi
To update, I faction changed to Horde and joined a semi-casual progression/raiding guild (their first team is working on Lich King) as part of their ICC Team #2. Much better people, they know what they're doing and care about progression. Last night was my first ICC run with them - we cleared first wing relatively painlessly last night (it's funny, we had to have melee help out on Saurfang because DPS was kinda low, and it worked wonders after one mistake), tried Dreamwealker (that went really badly, we died in like 30 seconds), and then called it at midnight. With luck we'll be going back on Saturday (also my birthday woot!) and I'm hoping going for Plague Wing. We did have some IMO relatively undergeared people (a 'lock and a mage) but they didn't do too bad; their DPS seemed a bit low, but they seemed to know their class and just need gear upgrades.
Overall, it seems like a much better experience than what I had.
Post by
Tritoch
We had a lock pull 1.8k DPS at Deathwhisper. That was not a good pug.
Thankfully we've got a core group up now and don't have to pug stuff. :D I really don't recommend trying to do Fester without people who've at least read up on the fights, but Rotface is pretty simple to take down. I've never seen a pug do PP, though. What'd you find so hard about Dreamwalker? I've never had a chance to do it, personally.
Post by
Lorkin
Dreamwalker is both a dps and healer check. First time I saw the fight on a video I thought, this is cake you just have to heal the dragon. It's more difficult than that in that you have to control all the mobs coming out at the same time. Its somewhat a lot to do, like 2 heroic Halls of Reflection runs at the same time.
I've been in a PuG that's gotten all the way to LK. They usually stop there unless the people are way overgeared, as that fight takes a while to do.
I'm glad you found a new home with people closer to your level. I think you'll have a lot of fun with them. Just do your best and listen well and you might get a spot in their main A-Squad group.
Post by
Tritoch
Thanks for that. I was wondering why our tanks were talking so much about add control, but now I see. :x I wonder if I should spec unholy for that fight. Hm.
Post by
obiwaynekenobi
The issue we had with the adds was the abomination and the grubs or worms or whatever that spill out of him. Folks were dying VERY quickly to those, and the burning skeleton with that big AOE attack.
Post by
Lorkin
That giant Skel should be TOP priority. All dps drop what they are doing and kill it, no questions.
As for the abom, your tank should be able to keep the abom on him till the other more dangerous mobs are killed. The trick is to have a hunter use MD + Volley to allow the tank to AoE tank the worms/grubs as they come out.
Tell the hunter to save their MD and use it on the tank that has the abom, then Volley as the worms are squirting out. The hunter's volley generally is enough damage to kill them and whoever is nearby can finish them off.
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