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2nd T10 piece... What do I get first?
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Post by
LoqueNahak
I'm collecting more emblems to get the 2xT10 bonus while (obviously) keeping the 2xT9 too. Now... considering my actual gear and the legs stored in my bank (
Leggings of Northern Lights
) what do you suggest?
This is the hunter
I currently have 2xT9 (hands and legs) and 1xT10 (shoulders). I'd like to use the legs but I would lose the 2xT9 bonus, unless I drop something (head?) to get another T9. But then again... what will I replace to get the T10? Some items are too good to be replaced now (chest for example) so I really have few slots to fill.
This is what I think I could do, give me your opinion:
Replace head with T9 head iLevel 232 (+2xT9 bonus with legs)
Replace hands with T10 hands iLevel 251 (+2xT10 bonus with shoulders)
I guess I cannot replace legs until I get enough emblems for 4xT10 bonus, am I right? Or can I just equip
Leggings of Northern Lights
and forget about T9 bonus, considering the nice stats I get from that item?
Note:
Death card
is a placeholder, I'll be using
Greatness
when available.
Post by
Lorkin
According to
femaldwarf
, you would have about ~121.56 dps loss if you equipped the Leggings of the Northern Lights. The loss of the two piece T9 is too great.
That being said, if you can manage to get the T10 gloves from VoA or frost badges, you can then use your Leggings of Northern Lights in conjunction with two piece T10 set bonus. So T10 gloves + Leggings of Northern Lights would yield ~ +224.75 dps increase.
Learn to use
femaledwarf
as it will allow you to optimize your gear set. The sooner you learn to use it, the sooner you can take hold of your gear path.
Post by
LoqueNahak
That being said, if you can manage to get the T10 gloves from VoA or frost badges, you can then use your Leggings of Northern Lights in conjunction with two piece T10 set bonus
That means I would go for 2xT10 + nice leggings but no T9 bonus, right? I'll try that.
Learn to use
www.femaledwarf.com
I know the spreadsheet of course, it's quite popular here on Wowhead. Still... I don't trust it so much. It's not an official tool from Blizzard,
it's not supported by them and there is no clue that it actually "reflects" ingame stuff and mechanics
. It's a spreadsheet, but
not a real WoW sandbox
. Considering the amount of small tweaks you can do, even a marginal difference between this tool and game mechanics would make it -imho- completely useless in terms of "dps accuracy".
Don't get me wrong: is a very nice tool an very nicely "developed". But real game scenarios are a different thing. Also, you never get the same 10/25 man with "perfect" buffs, no mobility and so on. It's nice but -imho- far from being accurate.
Post by
Lorkin
Just because it's not 100% accurate doesn't mean it's "useless". Its a static tool used to measure static changes. If anything, its BEST used as a diff tool that lets you compare one vs another. There's no way to come up with a tool that adds all the random things that can happen in game, but this tool allows you to do comparisons pretty well.
Your original question was asking if using one set of gear over another was worth it. This tool is great for that. It won't accurately show what you would do via dpsmeter, but you just wanted a comparison.
Just because something isn't officially supported by Blizz doesn't mean its not valuable. Omen, Grid, DBM, etc are a ton of mods that isn't supported directly by Blizzard but are almost required for most raiding nowadays. What else can you rely on, shooting at a training dummy and checking your dps meters?
Post by
528207
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
LoqueNahak
Just because it's not 100% accurate doesn't mean it's "useless".
Maybe I expressed myself in the wrong way. I did not mean it's a "useless" tool in general. I just think it's not a valid tool to get "real" dps values, because too many variables are involved when playing in a "real" scenario. That's all, I was not writing to blame the tool itself. Anyway, I've got your point :-)
Omen, Grid, DBM
These mods (as well as many others) can be directly tested and verfied. Even if not "Blizzard certified/approved" you can be sure they perfectly reflect the game mechanics. DBM gives warnings and timeer exactly when you need it. QuestHelper, just to make a name, works the same way: what you see is what you actually have ingame.
On the other side, FemaleDwarf (or any other spreadsheet) is only a sophisticated tool that tries to emulate/recreate the complicate mechanics and algorithms behind the game. You cannot "test" it in any way, there is no way to actually verify the data.
As said before, it's not a sandbox, it's not a safe environment that can be used to reproduce ingame mechanics. I understand that even a training dummy is totally useless but... this is why I like asking people about personal experiences, that's all.
Post by
LoqueNahak
If you've got the money for it (enchants, gems and such) and the badges, put the chest piece in your bank, wear the leggings of northern lights, and get 2pc T9 gloves and chest, 2pc T10 head and shoulders. T10 leggings are poorly itemized. Alternately, keep gloves and leggings T9, and head shoulders T10, and swap in your leggings when you're ready to give up the T9 2pc (probably when your ready to start stacking arpen).
Hmmm I was thinking about T10 golves due to the cost (60 vs 90 for head) but your idea it's interesting, also because gloves can drop from VoA.
Post by
Rilgon
Hrm, my post didn't take last time.
Anyways, the correct answer is the chest. The chest is simultaneously the staistically strongest piece of T10 and would help replace one of your poorly itemized pieces of T9 - you then replace your current helm with T9's helm and maintain both set bonuses.
The only time that it's ideal to use Leggings of Northern Lights is when you're ready to make the jump to 4p T10 - which requires Nerub'ar Stalker's Cord (from Festergut), Leggings of Northern Lights, and at least three pieces of Sanctified T10 (Gloves/Shoulders/Chest/Helm). Before that point, you want 2p T9 (Helm/Pants), 2p T10 (Shoulders/Chest), and Logsplitters.
(And before you mention hit cap issues, that's what Focused Aim exists for. Pull points from Improved Steady as necessary. You're woefully over-hitcap as it is.)
Post by
LoqueNahak
And before you mention hit cap issues, that's what Focused Aim exists for. Pull points from Improved Steady as necessary. You're woefully over-hitcap as it is.)
I actually need to remove a LOT of hit, because being Draenei I'm way over the cap... so no problem at all.
Your idea of chest first is interesting, but considering my actual chest (better than T10, apart from hit) wouldn't be a better upgrade to replace the helm first (same cost of chest), so I get the 2xT10 bonus with my shoulders?
Post by
Rilgon
Your chest is not better than T10, not even 251 T10. The Armor Penetration from T10 is light years ahead of the not-even-utilized Hit on Carapace of Forgotten Kings.
And no, it would not be, because you would then have to use the poorly-itemized T9 gloves to maintain your set bonus there, instead of using T9 Helm/Pants, T10 Chest/Shoulders, and Logsplitters.
It's about the overall picture, not the strength of one particular item over another. Gear is a puzzle, and every item has interactions with each other.
Hell, I'm
STILL
using my T9 helm and pants, and I'm 10/12 Heroic ICC25. (My
armory
, for reference.)
Edit: And why in the name of everything that is holy are you using a Crit/Stam gem? The
ONLY
non-red/non-orange gem you should EVER use is a Nightmare Tear. Period, end of story, unless the socket bonus is roughly 10+ Agility
per blue gem.
Post by
Lorkin
Just curious Rilgon, why don't you use the
Vengeful Noose
over
Band of the Night Raven
(or
Fester's Belt
) for more Arm Pen. Are you 100% (1400) Arm Pen capped at your unbuffed 1272 Arm Pen?
Post by
Rilgon
You know how many times Heroic Nerub'ar Stalker's Cord has dropped for my guild?
That's right, a whopping zero times. :P The Normal belt has only dropped once, as well, and I deferred it to another Hunter at the time as, at the time, it was a downgrade (didn't have the things ready to go to make the jump to 4p T10).
I could use Vengeful Noose, but then I'd also have to make the 4p T10 jump at the same time to stay hit-capped, and I'd then also have to get either LDW's pants (which, again, the heroic version has never dropped) or the crafted pants, which I wouldn't have the Emblems of Frost for the Saronite for if I bought Vengeful Noose.
Sooooo yeah. It's all a waiting game for a damn drop to drop. If I get the belt this week, I can go 4p T10 + Heroic Nerub'ar + Crafted Pants and I'll be hard-capped with Hearty Rhino. \o/
Post by
LoqueNahak
And no, it would not be, because you would then have to use the poorly-itemized T9 gloves to maintain your set bonus there, instead of using T9 Helm/Pants, T10 Chest/Shoulders, and Logsplitters
Ok, note taken. Of course I would get the 232 head, as I have no trophies at all, right now. Still viable?
Edit: And why in the name of everything that is holy are you using a Crit/Stam gem? The
ONLY
non-red/non-orange gem you should EVER use is a Nightmare Tear. Period, end of story, unless the socket bonus is roughly 10+ Agility
per blue gem.
I've lost all my account's stuff (hacked, my fault). Most of the things you see on my toon were in the bank in a remote bag and they were left untouched. I did not even notice the gem, it's an old thing of the past because I had better legs than these (lost in the hack process).
Anyway ty for the general info, feel free to give ofc :)
Post by
Rilgon
With your current gear/spec and full raid buffs, you clock in at 9516.95 simulated DPS.
Making the switch to 232 Helm, 251 T10 chest, and Logsplitters, with ideal gemming (I'm also fixing your gem in your pants because yeah :P), you simulate out at 9860.65 DPS - a gain of over 340 DPS. (Edit: By "ideal gemming", I mean that the yellow socket in your T9 helm gets a Deadly Ametrine, and your Nightmare Tear goes into the blue slot in your T9 pants.)
And that's with a few mistakes still remaining - if I change your spec, removing the 3 points from Improved Arcane Shot, put one into Focused Aim (to hit-cap you - you're 20 hit shy after gear changes) and two into Rapid Recuperation (as you have severe mana issues even with JoW in a simulated 6-minute fight), replace your Glyph of TSA with Glyph of Kill Shot, and drop Arcane Shot from your rotation, you simulate out at 10015.50 DPS - another triple-digit DPS gain.
So yes, absolutely viable and worth it. ^^;
Post by
LoqueNahak
(I'm also fixing your gem in your pants because yeah :P)
Yummy.... keep posting please :)
you're 20 hit shy after gear changes
Even if I'm Draenei?
and drop Arcane Shot from your rotation
This gets me unprepared: shouldn't I get more than enough arpen, before totally drop Arcane?
Post by
370104
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rilgon
drop Arcane Shot from your rotation
This gets me unprepared: shouldn't I get more than enough arpen, before totally drop Arcane?
The point at which you want to drop Arcane Shot varies based on individual gear, and does not have a hard and fast rule based on ArPen value. As Rilgon said, with the changes he proposed it'd be an overall dps gain for you to drop Arcane.
For my hunter, the point to drop Arcane was at 500 ArPen. I have 2 piece t9.25 (245 helm, pants) and 2 piece t10 (251 shoulders, gloves)
It's worth noting that it's not
just
ArPen that causes you to want to drop Arcane Shot from your rotation, but a combination of ArPen, Crit Strike rating (as critical Steady Shots hit much harder due to Piercing Shots) and average ranged weapon damage (as Arcane gets no benefit from a weapon upgrade and Steady does).
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