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Prot Pally: A Comprehensive Starter Guide v4.0.1
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Post by
AnrDaemon
Rotation
Prot Paladins no longer have a set rotation to follow while tanking.
Seriously, you're wrong. Yes it's more like priority rotation, but main component leaves the same from the time you get Shield of the Righteous.
Main rotation (and it is rotation): 3x Holy Power/Spend it/Judge.
Because Crusader Strike and Hammer of the Righteous on the same cooldown, you can't just spam Holy Power, and that leaves you enough time to cast AS and HW while accumulating Holy Power (precisely, you have two GCD to cast something in between).
Post by
blademeld
3x Holy Power/Spend it/Judge.
Judge and then spend it, for the SD proc.
Not that it really matters since the buff is 15 seconds.
Post by
blademeld
Opinion: Avoidance (for lower numbers of hits) is better than Expertise (for less parry-gibbing) or vice versa in dealing with increased incoming damage and tanking generally.
That was never a point in the argument, or I'd have pointed out that expertise-parry cap is 56 and that Aestu is at 26...
which would be silly.
Post by
Varaconn
Rotation
Prot Paladins no longer have a set rotation to follow while tanking.
Seriously, you're wrong. Yes it's more like priority rotation, but main component leaves the same from the time you get Shield of the Righteous.
Main rotation (and it is rotation): 3x Holy Power/Spend it/Judge.
Because Crusader Strike and Hammer of the Righteous on the same cooldown, you can't just spam Holy Power, and that leaves you enough time to cast AS and HW while accumulating Holy Power (precisely, you have two GCD to cast something in between).
The fact is though, it
is
a priority system in that there isn't a static order of ability use. It's not just the building of Holy Power, but the folding on of all your other abilities. As you said, you weave AS and HW (and Judgement) in between. If they're all available, which do you use?
That is the essence of a priority rotation.
Post by
SlowSide
I just did a little quick & dirty testing, w/ & w/o RF as asked. And yes the threat w/o RF is half of what it is w/ RF.
It seems threat from heals still only generate 50%, with RF on they seem to generate 100%. But this was a very small test, and I do not have GbtL. I made sure I was about 20k low on health going into each pull by switching my holy & prot gear so I got the full effect from WoG.
That's strange, since it's +200% threat, the threat per WoG should go up to 15k (theoretical) instead of 10k (actual with RF) from 5k (actual without RF).
GbtL shouldn't change threat much unless you're overhealing.
It may be an issue with RF, or something wrong on my end w/ Skada Threat since I thought as well that our threat w/ RF should be (threat + threat * 2). I'll double check in a bit with Omen & Skada open to see if they give different numbers.
But then, all I do is run Heroics and the weekly raid quests, and I'm used to having healers that sometimes fall asleep at the keyboard, or are under-geared, or have DPS that don't get out of the fires in time. Instead of pointing blame at them, I just keep myself and them alive and feel my ego swell a little. :)
IMO that is perfectly reasonable. The talent tree has more flexibility than it did, and at least in our tree right now there is no "best" spec for everyone. If you use WoG & find value in it, pick it up. I like that people can have a few different points and NOT be wrong. What an individual likes and their situation in the game should be a factor in talents, and previously it wasn't.
I just wanted to prove / disprove the "massive" AoE threat it generates since that was one of the 2 reasons to pick it up.
Post by
93865
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
I was under the impression that they were going to remove parry haste completely come Cata.
Substantiate this.
#$%^ you.
I'm not taking demands from you. Based on the thousands of blue posts I've read regarding Cataclysm, I was under the impression that they were going to remove parry haste completely come Cata. I can't be bothered to waste my morning looking for them, because I don't care about this argument or this thread. I came in an made an observation. If you don't believe me I don't give a damn. Do your own $%^&ing research.
Post by
Synectics
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/t/24702403015/the-tank-thread/
We're also not happy with the new implementation of parry, where you take 50% damage from two swings. It sounded good on paper, but after testing it out we thought the second swing just feels goofy and confusing. Our plan is to revert parry back to 100% avoidance and remove the concept of swing speed increase for any creature (players could still do it). We would change the budget on parry to be exactly the same as dodge. We'd also like to add some more talent hooks that favor say parry over dodge for some classes -- stuff like "After a successful parry...."
That's what I found on the matter. I knew I'd seen something about it as well, just like Hyperspacerebel. However, that's not to say that this ever went into effect, or they didn't change their mind. I mean, the date on that post is 06/16/2010. But Hyperspacerebel was definitely right in that he saw it stated at one point.
Post by
blademeld
How do you see yourself in a position to critique others' armories when you refuse to disclose your own?
Said it once already, not everything in this thread is about you, okay?
Was replying to Squishalot, didn't critique you, was using you as an example to disprove something else entirely.
Then again, I might have to polish your E-pen just to make you happy.
Post by
93865
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
SlowSide
My previous numbers were just a quick comparison showing that RF is working to increase the threat from the heal, though I didn't do any math, the 100% was just seat of the pants reaction, not exact. So here is some math from 2 pulls.
9.3 Threat -> 12.6 Threat from a 7122 WoG with no RF. Omen & Skada showed same numbers.
The exact amount expected would be 3561 threat (.5 * 7122), and Omen + Skada returned the expected values.
25.3 Threat -> 36.4 Threat from a 7387 WoG with RF active. Omen & Skada showed same numbers.
Basically the threat modifier from RF is applied as such (Base Threat + Base Threat * Modifier) = Total Threat
So from plugging in the numbers for a 7387 WoG I get 11080 threat, which is right on the money.
It comes from (.5(7387) + .5(7387 * 2)) which we can simplify a couple of steps down to 1.5(7387).
Basically with RF up you receive 150% of the heal as threat. With it off you receive only 50%. Hope this helps clear up some stuff.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Why should I believe you? "Observation"? Based on what? Which amongst those "thousands of blue posts" indicated anything about parry-hasting being removed? Why shouldn't you have to justify your claims about what others may or may not have said?
Making the argument purely empirically, or based on some sort of reasoning - "they'll probably remove it because it's lame that you can randomly get hit twice" - is different than falsely attributing claims or intent.
Answer the question. You say blue posters indicated parry-hasting was going to be removed. Substantiate this.
Get over yourself. I never asked you to believe me.
If you don't believe me I don't give a damn.
I saw a discussion going, and I had relevant information. I didn't come in to prove a point, I didn't come in to argue against anyone's point, and I sure as hell didn't come in to get demands thrown at me. You could have asked nicely, but then again you're you.
Post by
Synectics
Why should I believe you? "Observation"? Based on what? Which amongst those "thousands of blue posts" indicated anything about parry-hasting being removed? Why shouldn't you have to justify your claims about what others may or may not have said?
Hyper never claimed you were wrong, nor that he was right:
I was
under the impression
that they were going to remove parry haste completely come Cata.
Hell, Hyper is even admitting from the very start that he could be wrong, and isn't saying that you're wrong, either. He's just stating what he thought he'd heard -- nothing more, nothing less. You're trying to create an argument where there never was one in the first place. :\
Which amongst those "thousands of blue posts" indicated anything about parry-hasting being removed?
He's referring to the fact that at one point, Ghostcrawler stated that they were going to remove parry-haste, which I posted above,
complete with a link.
Again, this isn't to say that it DID happen, or DIDN'T happen. But I knew I'd seen this post way back when, and obviously Hyper thought so to. So... yes, we're under the impression parry-haste is getting removed from mobs come Cata. It's not fact that it is or isn't -- it's just what we've heard from Blizzard. :p
Post by
93865
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
I simply asked you to substantiate your point.
No, you demanded it. And it's not the first time.
How is your information relevant if you can't substantiate it?
It's relevant, because if it's true, it throws the entire reckoning argument that is being made here out the window...
How are you completely oblivious to that?
And secondly, I don't need to substantiate the impressions I'm under. If you don't believe me, that's your problem not mine.
Why should we believe this claim if there's no reason to?
The world doesn't revolve around you...no one cares what you believe.
tl;dr:
If you don't believe me I don't give a damn
.
Edit:
EDIT: Read the post that Synectics was kind enough to link.
You could have just done that when I initially asked, Hyperspace.
I could have wasted my entire morning to prove something I could honestly care less about, yes. Why should I?
GC said that...but do we know that change went live?
Do we know it didn't go live?
Threat decay was explicitly announced to have not gone live.
Post by
Gryphon
Back on topic please, drop it.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##Gryphon##DELIM##
Post by
Synectics
Edit: Deleted my post; let's get back on topic. :P
Post by
Djane
Aestu, please explain the slight dichotomy between on the one hand saying you should gem hit/expertise for threat, (and thus lowering your survivability) and on the other saying you shouldn't take reckoning because of parry haste.
Similarly using a tanking weapon instead of a dps one.
Either you build for threat or you build for survivability.
You don't make half an assjob of both.
Post by
93865
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
AnrDaemon
Rotation
Prot Paladins no longer have a set rotation to follow while tanking.
Seriously, you're wrong. Yes it's more like priority rotation, but main component leaves the same from the time you get Shield of the Righteous.
Main rotation (and it is rotation): 3x Holy Power/Spend it/Judge.
Because Crusader Strike and Hammer of the Righteous on the same cooldown, you can't just spam Holy Power, and that leaves you enough time to cast AS and HW while accumulating Holy Power (precisely, you have two GCD to cast something in between).
The fact is though, it
is
a priority system in that there isn't a static order of ability use. It's not just the building of Holy Power, but the folding on of all your other abilities. As you said, you weave AS and HW (and Judgement) in between. If they're all available, which do you use?
That is the essence of a priority rotation.
Yiou already quoted the answer. Now read it aloud, until you understand. Can't be macroed? I already macroed it. It's even more boring than 69 rotation. (Not that it's displease me - the less I need to waste my time watching for f'n procs, the more time I can spend controlling scene.
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