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Prot Pally: A Comprehensive Starter Guide v4.0.1
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Post by
161859
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
93865
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
blademeld
This is false. Healing threat coefficients were class-specific in Vanilla, and absorbs were low-threat. Guarded by Light procs an absorb effect. I don't know what the current rules are, but this is both irrelevant and incorrect.
Again, do not state your misinformation as if it's fact.
IT WAS WHENEVER AESTU DECIDED IT WAS LOL
I'm sorry you're so blinded by your hatred for me that you can't see why this is relevant.
Post by
blademeld
The probability of Heroism causing a lethal parry-haste due to its 20% melee speed increase is far more marginal than speccing into a talent that gives additional weapon swings.
Funny story.
If Parry-gibbing is such a concern, you'd have replaced Last Word ages ago.
Post by
93865
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
SlowSide
The first paragraph is old news, but it's good for newer paladins to know, Healing threat also used to be 50% of the damage healed in Vanilla to 3.3.5, I don't know if that's the case in 4.0.1.
You still get threat from Righteous Fury, could you check if healing still receives the penalty with and without RF?
You need 1/2 GbtL for the Holy Shield proc and self bubble, which is a good point spent.
I just did a little quick & dirty testing, w/ & w/o RF as asked. And yes the threat w/o RF is half of what it is w/ RF.
I did 3 single target pulls with it on & off.
On - 9k, 7.5k, 10k.
Off - 3.7k, 4.2k, 4.9k.
I did 2 pulls with 2 targets with it on & off.
On - 5.2k, 4.9k
Off - 2.5k, 2.4k
It seems threat from heals still only generate 50%, with RF on they seem to generate 100%. But this was a very small test, and I do not have GbtL. I made sure I was about 20k low on health going into each pull by switching my holy & prot gear so I got the full effect from WoG.
I agree 1/2 in GbtL may be a good choice, I may switch my spec to
this
based on all of this discussion. Though I have to say I just like 1/2 in Reckoning, and Parry Gib is of little concern until I start leveling again.
Post by
Elorivan
Several helpful things about WoG threat....
I think at this point in time WoG threat / self heal is unneeded and the 2 points in GbtL can be better spent elsewhere. On the way to 85 I would definitely say to pick it up since healer mana will start to matter, damage will be higher, etc, etc.
Thanks for saying what I've been trying to.
Also, in relation to WoG threat - I swear I've read somewhere that the threat from the shield is only 0.5 per damage blocked. Can anyone confirm/deny this?
Post by
blademeld
Support this. Link me something authoritative that indicates that what you are saying is true...or ever was.
Fine, you're right and that change happened on the year, month and day of your choosing. I don't really give a damn, attack the least relevant part of the post, which doesn't change the core argument in the least.
Someone too cowardly to associate their claims with their character shouldn't be critiquing others.
Last Word is one of the slower weapons.
Attack my experience, and then my animosity. Doesn't change the fact that you can easily reforge a 2.6 DPS weapon for more threat and less parry-gibbing.
Doesn't change the fact that your arguments are faltering.
I just did a little quick & dirty testing, w/ & w/o RF as asked. And yes the threat w/o RF is half of what it is w/ RF.
It seems threat from heals still only generate 50%, with RF on they seem to generate 100%. But this was a very small test, and I do not have GbtL. I made sure I was about 20k low on health going into each pull by switching my holy & prot gear so I got the full effect from WoG.
That's strange, since it's +200% threat, the threat per WoG should go up to 15k (theoretical) instead of 10k (actual with RF) from 5k (actual without RF).
GbtL shouldn't change threat much unless you're overhealing.
Post by
79224
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
blademeld
I don't want this thread to get locked.
Alright.
Post by
93865
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Elorivan
For the record Blademeld, I value your opinion as well.
Aestu's posts aren't worth responding too - she's a parasite who lives on the forums, feeding on the sense of superiority she gets from putting others down.
Post by
blademeld
At this point there's nothing left to reply to.
Post by
93865
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Synectics
On small dungeon pulls, IE single groups, it can help, esp. with GbtL. But in current content no one pulls just one group, when you are talking about pulling 3 groups of 3-4 mobs each WoG threat is minimal. When people chain pull, even in ICC you are talking about typically 5+ mobs at one time, 2-3k threat on each mob every 10 seconds should not make or break a pull, if it does I would say there are larger issues at play.
Yeah, I agree the threat isn't substantial and there are far better talents for generating threat. However, chain-pulling and having a lot more mobs than usual does sound like a good reason to have those points for self-preservation. XD
I dunno, maybe I just differ from a lot of Protadins in this respect, but I really love having that big heal that's ~25% of my total HP. It just seems like such a powerful ability, and it's not even a cooldown -- if anything, you could say it was, what, a 10 second cooldown? The time it takes to stack 3 HP (if you prioritize stacking HP over anything else).
Plus, I've yet to have any problems with threat against 12k DPS -- just did Patchwerk for the weekly, and a Paladin wearing all 264's was the pulling tank. I ended up doing 600 more DPS than him, pulled threat from him, and held Patch the entire time, eventually ending up with quite a large threat lead over the other tank -- all with my average item level of 226. Sure, we're not talking 25 ICC hard modes, but it definitely put things in perspective for me.
But then, all I do is run Heroics and the weekly raid quests, and I'm used to having healers that sometimes fall asleep at the keyboard, or are under-geared, or have DPS that don't get out of the fires in time. Instead of pointing blame at them, I just keep myself and them alive and feel my ego swell a little. :)
Post by
atomicwolf22
For the record Blademeld, I value your opinion as well.
Aestu's posts aren't worth responding too - she's a parasite who lives on the forums, feeding on the sense of superiority she gets from putting others down.
How I perceive myself has no bearing on the fact that my points were valid. If you're not willing to internalize said points - and correct your guide where it is incorrect - you're clearly not interested in writing a guide, only advancing your own ego, even if that means spreading misinformation.
In the back and forth post I never once saw you link to a MT or any other site that proved your theroy's on tanking. How do we know that there just not that theory's. Prove want your saying,Once proven then it will have to be changed as its been proven.
Until then there is nothing that can be backed up and both points of view are both valid. Regaurdless for the most part that people tend to disagreed alot with you in serveral topics.
Post by
Squishalot
Do they need to be linked?
It's reasonable to conclude that Reckoning increases parry-gibbing. More attacks = more parries = more hasted boss attacks. You don't need a link to demonstrate that.
Really, people are too quick to write off Aestu as nothing more than a troll. Some things are simply a difference of opinion. Some things are factually incorrect. For example:
Fact: Reckoning will increase parry-gibbing, thereby increasing your incoming damage.
Opinion: Avoidance (for lower numbers of hits) is better than Expertise (for less parry-gibbing) or vice versa in dealing with increased incoming damage and tanking generally.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Fact: Reckoning will increase parry-gibbing, thereby increasing your incoming damage.
I was under the impression that they were going to remove parry haste completely come Cata.
Post by
atomicwolf22
Fact: Reckoning will increase parry-gibbing, thereby increasing your incoming damage.
I was under the impression that they were going to remove parry haste completely come Cata.
I Thought so also. Anyone have a scource with anything other.
I don't disagree on the Reckoning Part I fully agree there.
My disagreedment it with the other things like the last part. Things that can't be proven and are theory's.
Post by
Squishalot
Fact: Reckoning will increase parry-gibbing, thereby increasing your incoming damage.
I was under the impression that they were going to remove parry haste completely come Cata.
Is it? This is news to me, though I haven't kept myself abreast of the Cata news updates - figured they'd keep changing up until release.
My disagreedment it with the other things like the last part. Things that can't be proven and are theory's.
Yeah, well, Avoidance > Expertise is blademeld's line. That's precisely it though - it's an opinion, and the two of them can argue until the cows come home as to which is 'better'.
Aestu is very opinionated, but can't be accused of spouting factually incorrect things, or disputing factually correct things. Generally speaking, from what I've seen posted, anyway.
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