This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Live
PTR
10.2.7
PTR
10.2.6
Beta
Prot Pally: A Comprehensive Starter Guide v4.0.1
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
93865
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Varaconn
Well, not a pure priority system, to be sure, but it's definitely a farcry from what it used to be. Thinking of it in a priority fashion (with regards to GC procs, HW coming off cooldown, etc.) gives it more on-the-fly sense than trying to make a concrete rotation out of it.
Aaaat any rate, it doesn't make much difference in the end, assuming you don't try to take it as a literal rotation. I'm imagining some poor sap running in trying to use ShoR first, wondering why it won't work...
Speaking of which, if you're going to keep the priority system in the rotation section, I would mention that the highest priority is a 3-stack ShoR. It's common sense, sure, but in classic "priority" sense, the mentioned queue would imply using ShoR every time it's available, ie with 1 Holy Power, and there's a pretty big difference.
Post by
Synectics
Just want to basically agree with everything Aestu said. I was in the middle of quoting quite a few sections before I came across his posts that had all the corrections I wanted to note -- and I am NOT an end-game raider, just a guy who runs heroics and enjoys tanking. But even so, the ones I really thought noteworthy:
Word of Glory, and its
associated
talents
, are HIGHLY worthwhile. I even spec into
Protector of the Innocent
because of how often I use WoG. Being able to heal yourself for upwards of 12k (~9k from a 3HP WoG and 3k from
PotI
) is highly useful, especially in heroics where healers may still be adapting to their new systems.
Even if I'm at full health, I often use WoG on my party during AOE bosses -- highly useful when people just don't get out of the damn poison in ToC fast enough. And don't forget -- casting WoG on ANY target procs
Guarded by the Light
, meaning you get Holy Shield from helping heal the group. Plus, as Aestu pointed out, it's great threat. If I recall, overhealing doesn't count towards threat, hence why it's often more useful to heal a party member instead of yourself if you're at full health.
I also agree with Aestu that
Improved HoJ
isn't "useless." However, I will argue that it's not necessary (except for the Lich King encounter mentioned, and other such encounters). I think it's more "flavor" than anything else if you're not raiding. I personally love it, as I use it on any mob that I start to lose threat on, to keep them in my range and allow me to switch my focus to them before they go and smack the mage. But other tanks might just have a different style, and don't feel it's necessary -- instead, they taunt, or something else. That's one of the joys of our new tanking system -- we have quite a bit of choice in playstyle, instead of just 969'ing to victory.
Using LoH and yourself causes Forbearance, which prevents you from using your other, better cool-downs (Bubble or DP) for two minutes.
I'm sure this is just leftover from before 4.0.1, but obviously now Divine Protection can be used with Forbearance up, and doesn't cause it. Probably just needs updated.
Post by
93865
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
79224
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
161859
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
79224
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Varaconn
Yeah, that's what it is. If Judgment is available and you don't have Sacred Duty up, it acceptable (and a probable threat increase) to judge for a Sacred Duty proc then use SotR.
Post by
161859
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Elorivan
Changed:
- boot enchant
- shoulder enchant
- shield enchant (Can you tell I skipped the enchanting section during the re-work?)
- wording on LoH
- wording on HoJ
- wording on rotation, to clarify that it is a priority system, as well as using 3 holy power SotR
- wording on pulling, noting that Holy Shield should go up as soon as possible.
- gem recommendation for meeting Meta requirements.
- added combat table explanation
- removed link to Wiki, replaced with Maintankadin link
Note: Anyone wishing to QQ over using a WoG-centric build, please start a new thread, and provide some definitive math. I'd like to see some hard numbers showing that a WoG build will be necessary in Cata before I change my spec, not an OMGWTFNOWOG?1! thread.
Post by
93865
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
93865
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Synectics
Just did a fast test as soon as servers came up. I flew to Icecrown, dropped to the ground to get my HP to 10k, then went and grabbed a Pustulent Horror. I kept my back to the mob unless using an ability, to try and minimize any auto-swings and Holy Shield hits.
=======================================
I smacked it to get 3 HP (with no Seal of Truth up). This put me at 19.3k threat according to Omen.
I healed myself with WoG for 12,057. This also caused my Protector of the Innocent to pop, healing me for another 3,641.
This increased my threat to 42.9k (a gain of ~23k)
After smacking it with three more CS's (and nothing more), I was up to 62.6k threat.
Another full WoG and Protector of the Innocent healed me for 11,952 + 3.878.
My threat increased to 86.5k (another gain of ~24k).
=======================================
I repeated this test again, simply smacking a new target with CS to get 3 HP. I then used Judgement for Sacred Duty. After that, I was at 23.0k threat according to Omen.
A full Shield of the Righteousness hit for 3,614.
This increased my threat to 36.6k (an increase of ~13.6k)
Rinse, repeat. Again, judging for Sacred Duty, and recording my threat at 65.0k.
SotR crit for 7,795.
This put my threat to 90.5k (increase of ~35.5k)
=======================================
Important notes:
I'm not raid-buffed, and I don't have much from Vengeance on my side. I'm also not in great gear, meaning that I'm not hitting as hard as many raiders.
But I think just this basic experiment definitely shows that WoG, talented, will definitely do a lot more threat in an AOE situation (that threat goes to all mobs, doesn't it?).
Full buffed and against a single raid boss, SotR is going to win -- especially when it's critting for 45k. Clearly, a 13k heal won't do as much.
Post by
93865
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
etrin
Was talking to some buddies and they seem to think in a heroic that we supposed to change seals and auras based on mobs or will it really matter much?
single boss Devotion Aura
packs/aoe Retribution Aura
boss Seal of Truth
packs/aoe Seal of Righteousness
some said kings all the time while others said kings is ok but might for aoe
Post by
Synectics
Was talking to some buddies and they seem to think in a heroic that we supposed to change seals and auras based on mobs or will it really matter much?
single boss Devotion Aura
packs/aoe Retribution Aura
boss Seal of Truth
packs/aoe Seal of Righteousness
some said kings all the time while others said kings is ok but might for aoe
I don't think you'll need to be switching Blessings between different trash packs.
And switching seals is more of a Ret Paladin thing.
Seal of Righteousness
still only affects your single-target attacks, unless you're Ret and have
Seals of Command
.
As for Auras, it might be a threat boost to switch to Retribution Aura for AOE packs. I'm not sure how much of a boost, but sounds good in theory.
Post by
blademeld
I gem expertise/stam for the same reason, and I can definitely say the increased reliability is better for the raid than the small amount of EH/avoidance sacrificed. What is your reasoning to the contrary?
Reword what you've said.
I can definitely say the increased EH/avoidance is better for the raid than the small amount of reliability sacrificed.
You really only have threat problems in gimmick fights and at the beginning of a pull, it's also easier to just carry around a survival set (primary) and a threat set (secondary) than trying to balance the two in one gearset.
Post by
93865
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
blademeld
If you are doing progression, or attempting a fairly challenging boss, you want your DPS to open up immediately; you don't want the attempt to be wasted because "OMFG MY INITIAL CSTRIKE MISSED".
This is true not only for the boss on initial pull, but also for rapidly spawning adds and such (heroic Halion, heroic LK).
Therefore, the emphasis so far as threat is concerned should be ensuring reliable pickup/threat, not merely a greater volume of threat overall.
Threat sets are obsolete; if you want to itemize for raw threat/DPS, just switch out your tank trinkets for DPS trinkets - Death's Verdict and Greatness card are most excellent in this regard.
the gain (from my three expertise/stam gems and my libram reforged for hit), would be about 1% avoidance, or roughly 20 stam and a fraction of a percent more avoidance.
Is it your contention that 300ish HP, when I'm sitting on 55k outside ICC and 80k with all raid buffs and the ICC buff, is more likely to be decisive than roughly a 3-5% chance of an initial threat move on any given mob failing?
Also, bluntly, you're volunteering your opinion about something purely empirical. Since you say you don't have an active account, you don't have any frame of reference regarding this discussion: your opinion cannot be an informed one.
I think you and I can both agree that one Crusader Strike on a single boss won't wipe you, especially when you have ranged Exo, AS, judgement all before the boss even touches you. If absolutely everything goes wrong, you have two taunts.
I consider add fights as gimmick fights, so I'd be using a threat set for that.
That's what I said, beginning of a pull.
Trinket slots are obsolete if you don't have enough expertise and hit on the rest of your gear, there are more scenarios than yours.
3 expertise gems would be 30 expertise points, or 45 stamina. Reforging your libram would give you 14 hit over 14 dodge/parry. I don't know where 20 stamina came from. Are your red sockets giving you socket bonuses?
See, there's a big difference here, for you, the defining change from a threat to survival set comparison is set at the maximum of ~30 stat points, for me, I push that number up to 100-300 points. Completely different scenario. Maybe I never use my survival set, maybe the difference gets smaller in different tiers. I still have them, the same reason you may pick up utility talents such as Divine Guardian or Eternal Glory.
Maybe you're right, but what's the purpose of picking on that point if you're certain of your arguments?
Post by
93865
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.