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Changing the way people are raid saved.
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Post by
lonewarrior
The past night I ran into a situation that left kind of left me out in the cold in regards to doing ICC.
To give a quick excerpt..
I joined a 25 man ICC pug. At first it was going well..we downed the first boss and on our way to Deathwhisper. We end up having a D/Ced healer..as we wait...for some reason a couple of different guilds decide to get into a squabble and the next thing you know people are leaving. Long story short..we waste an hour trying to recruit and then the whole raid disbands.
The chances of me grouping with these people again are almost nil and from what I was told some of them actually did try to pick from where they left off..which means even if I did get back in. I would probably miss out on some bosses.
This leads me to my point...why is it we can't be saved to bosses instead of dungeons?
Case point..someone I know started another 25man ICC today..which went very well..but obviously I couldn't join. Why can't blizz design it so I could join the raid and even fight the first boss..except I would not get a loot drop on it since I had downed him in another raid. When we would have gotten to DeathWhisper then I could have begun to roll again on loot. I can't see this being very complicated to implement and would allow me the freedom to go on different pug raids.
Another example happened a day earlier...when my guild got up to Fester and a member had to leave. They asked me to come in...but I had to pass because I wanted to do the previous bosses..with my idea..I could have gone and then still been able to do another fresh 10man ICC..with the exception that if we got to Fester I would not get any loot roll if we downed him.
Am I making any sense here.? ..Blizzard.you out there reading...?
Post by
499948
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
TheReal
Be thankful you downed a boss. I got pugged into a guild run for ICC 10 this week. I was sure to ask before I zoned in how long we were going to run. "Oh, we're running all night." They had cleared the first wing when someone left, so that's how I got the invite. We then cleared trash up to the mini-boss dogs. Then a healer went offline. Then 2 other people called it quits for the evening. At that point, the RL decided to call it quits and resume the run the next day. Too bad I only allow myself to raid one night a week.
Basically, I spent my lockout on about 300 rep. Even though I have no idea how Blizz could implement your idea, I would be the first person to sign your petition.
Post by
qwertydood
The problem I see is that high-end guilds could, after they finish a raid, sell their spots to lesser-geared people and do the bosses over again for money.
Guilds already do this for old stuff like Ulduar Hardmodes and Sartharion with 3 drakes up (selling the mounts you get) but with this they could do this as many times as they want.
In other words, hardcore guilds selling runs would become much more prevalent.
Post by
79222
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
archmiffo
Am I making any sense here
From your personal perspective, yes. From the overall perspective, none whatsoever.
I could have gone and then still been able to do another fresh 10man ICC
So basically, you could do the bosses in reverse order under one lockout? First buy a spot for LK, to get some of the best items, then start clearing it from the bottom? That just seems open for exploitation. As it is now it would at least be a sacrifice on the rest of the raid to get a spot on the last boss. With your idea it wouldn't be a sacrifice at all, but rather something you would rather do instead.
and would allow me the freedom to go on different pug raids.
Raids are supposed to be a commitment, not something you do on the fly like a quest, and as said previously it should include teamwork, something you will not get, and even get less of in pug, and in a pug like you describe. If there is nothing to loose ppl will leave for whatever reason instead of following through on the commitment they have to their fellowplayers in the team.
So personally I hate the idea, and I think its way to free as it is today.
Specially if you are able to down a boss you already done (even if you dont get any loot). Normal to high end raiders will have geared up all their characters within 2 weeks of the raid, therefore reducing the longevity of the content to absolute zero. Those guilds would just do a boss with their mains, then trade one spot for an alt, do the boss again, voila, the alt gets everything. that alt out, next alt in. He gets everything. Suddenly you have all the alt in the guild having all the loot from all the bosses. Next week they do their mains. So after 2 weeks there is no challenge left there and everyone gets bored.
Then they start to sell spots, which means that getting loot is a question about money and nothing else, so the game will boil down to how good you are getting gold, not how skilled you are, or how good teamplayer you are.
So no. Save to raids, not bosses.
Post by
lonewarrior
Am I making any sense here
From your personal perspective, yes. From the overall perspective, none whatsoever.
I could have gone and then still been able to do another fresh 10man ICC
So basically, you could do the bosses in reverse order under one lockout? First buy a spot for LK, to get some of the best items, then start clearing it from the bottom? That just seems open for exploitation. As it is now it would at least be a sacrifice on the rest of the raid to get a spot on the last boss. With your idea it wouldn't be a sacrifice at all, but rather something you would rather do instead.
and would allow me the freedom to go on different pug raids.
Raids are supposed to be a commitment, not something you do on the fly like a quest, and as said previously it should include teamwork, something you will not get, and even get less of in pug, and in a pug like you describe. If there is nothing to loose ppl will leave for whatever reason instead of following through on the commitment they have to their fellowplayers in the team.
So personally I hate the idea, and I think its way to free as it is today.
Specially if you are able to down a boss you already done (even if you dont get any loot). Normal to high end raiders will have geared up all their characters within 2 weeks of the raid, therefore reducing the longevity of the content to absolute zero. Those guilds would just do a boss with their mains, then trade one spot for an alt, do the boss again, voila, the alt gets everything. that alt out, next alt in. He gets everything. Suddenly you have all the alt in the guild having all the loot from all the bosses. Next week they do their mains. So after 2 weeks there is no challenge left there and everyone gets bored.
Then they start to sell spots, which means that getting loot is a question about money and nothing else, so the game will boil down to how good you are getting gold, not how skilled you are, or how good teamplayer you are.
So no. Save to raids, not bosses.
Look..it was an opening idea.not one set in stone. Stipulations could be put in. Just like in doing the ICC 5man dungeons..you have to do one before you can do the next one. You could have it where you would have to at least downed the boss once before you could jump in at a certain point.
Let me start at the top here..
"doing bosses in reverse order"...you can do that now to a fashion...you can bring a player in at any point in a raid if he isn't saved and is willing to be saved to yours at that point. If a raid is at LK and someone D/Ced they could pug a replacement who maybe never even did ICC...but would you..? If someone doesn't have the gear to do Lord Marrow..I'm sure not going to bring him in. So your logic to reverse raid running doesn't work because you still need the gear to do it.
Commitment to raiding..?
You and the previous post talk about commitment to raiding and yet blizzards implements a random pug system..so I would think that blizz is into promoting puging. How the frick can anyone know how a pug is going to turn out...why should I be penalized if others leave after a wipe and such.
Those guilds would just do a boss with their mains, then trade one spot for an alt, do the boss again, voila, the alt gets everything. that alt out, next alt in. He gets everything
You can't be serious...? So a guild does Lord Marrowgar..they down him..they then let a member bring in an alt..they do it again..just so that one alt can roll..of course he gets what he want to drop(doesn't everyone)..then they bring in another alt and keep doing this?...really?..if you can seriously visualize more than maybe a handful of demented players doing this..then you have been playing too long and if you try to say that maybe a guild could do a quarter and then bring in 4 or 5 alts and then do it again to try and get them gear..well then so what. Wouldn't this actually make a guild stronger..since members who were left out of the first run could get a second chance with their guild instead of having to pug. You never had a 80 run your leveling toon through a low level dungeon to farm loot..?
on exploiting it for gold..
"sign my guild charter paying 10 gold"...." paying 50gold for a run through Zul Farak"..."paying 100gold for a tank/last boss TOC"...your telling me you guys don't see this spamming across your trade chat practically everyday... making gold is a part of this game..don't we charge for our profession services..if someone is crazy enough to pay a huge amount of gold to have a guild run them through ICC for loot drop...then be my guest.
I'm kind of disappointed at how low you think of your fellow WoW community..most of us are not exploiters...we just want the opportunity to progress. For many of us..pugging is the only route.
My idea was just a suggestion to allow freedom of movement and immediately all you can see is the exploitation of it.
All you can do is your part and try to play the game the right way. Peace!
sorry about the editing..for some reason they didn't show up at first and I had to repeat them.
Post by
alejbr4
you can add if they completed all the bosses then they can't go into the raid. i don't know why everytime someone has a logical answer and wants thoughts people trash them without giving a real legit answer or giving and add on on how to fix the problem they saw. i like this idea. i remember one of my friends got into a car accident in the middle of the blood queen fight a few weeks ago. now i left but the guild finished so i had no way of doing the other bosses. and to say dont do pugs many high ends guilds rarely add people all the time, and some have strict gear req just to get in ( i am on 12 servers so ive seen it on those atleast) what about guilds that have strict times to raid, not everyone can put their life for a guild. before someone comes in here talking about well maybe you should pay for wow. remember going out to say the movies with the cost of food and the ticket for a hr and half movie is more than a month of wow. so money spent on time is well worth it
Post by
399950
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
lonewarrior
Keep the ideas coming. I've always said if blizzard is made aware of community sentiments they would be wise to follow up on it.
So if you pugged Marrowgar for the weekly and then your PUG fell apart before Deathwhisper, your new raid would have to down Marrowgar before you could even enter the raid.
Well my original idea would allow you to go back and participate in the Marrowgar fight..you just won't see the loot. The reason being that the way you describe it would mean someone having to leave the raid to let you in. Perhaps the way some bosses are given a limited amount of attempts on could be used (i.e. you get 2 downed shots at Marrowagar after that you can't enter that particular boss fight anymore.)
Doesn't really matter how they implement it..the bottom line is many of us would just want a second chance to get into a raid..should the first one not have run its course.
Post by
DaCyclops
I think it would be interesting if there was a "merge into lockout" feature as part of Cata. So that if someone downs only the first 2 bosses in a raid, they can "merge" into another lockout that has downed ONLY those two bosses. They get their details removed from the first lockout, and added to the second.
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