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Blood tank concerned about his TPS
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Post by
falcov
Hey guys,
I've been doing ICC for the past month or so, but the last couple weeks I've been expected to tank. I've been trying to get most of my advice from our DK class lead but he's not on very much so I'm gonna hafta ask you guys. Is there any "secret" to holding AOE aggro as a Blood tank? I know Blood is not especially optimal for trash and trash is not srsbiz, but there have been a few trash pulls (admittedly, where I haven't taken point and the other tank does the actual pull) where I'm essentially Dark Commanding and DGing at every opportunity and not really holding aggro on anything. I haven't had this issue when I actually make the pull,
Here
is my profile and I've been using the basic "cookie cutter" AOE rotation (DnD->IT->PS->Pest->DS/BB as runes allow). Now, as I mentioned earlier, when I have these aggro issues is usually when the other tank pulls so in these circumstances some ranged DPS might actually start DPSing before I start building threat on mobs. Should I give priority to BB in these circumstances for a little more snap aggro, or is DnD about as close to snap aggro as Blood DKs get? Also, as the pull goes on, if i have time for another DnD, should I save up the runes to do it or should I just BB w/ the Death Runes I have?
If you guys hvae any tips for my build/gear/etc, feel free to chime in. I know Unholy Command is fail and I'm probably a little Expertise heavy..but my guild is a little bit sparse on DKs (most of the time) and the reduced cooldown actually comes in handy.
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Post by
falcov
I assume your DK is this one:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Lightninghoof&n=Unshackled
Yes, it is.
One problem may be that you're not spreading diseases before blood boiling.
I do spread my diseases before BB. I was just asking if it may be worth it to get some BB's off for some initial aggro rather than relying on DnD to hold aggro until my blood runes come back up after the DnD & the Pestilence.
Blood DK aoe threat is godawful terrible. Don't worry yourself over whether you can hold threat or not - you can't. Every other tank can easily demolish your aoe threat. What you're good at, is single target.
Ultimately, this was what I was expecting. I was kinda hoping there was something obvious that I missed that was going to make AOE tanking as Blood spec easier than it has been.. but ugh, .. I suppose this may be another good reason for going to a single tanking tree: we'll now have one good tanking tree that's good for all tanking situations instead of 3 tanking trees that are really only good for one situation.
The only time it really comes a problem is on Lich King. As the OT, I ought to be taking the ghouls and shambling horrors in p1, but it was impossible to get aggro off our MT's consecrate + holy shield damage, and I don't have a 3-target taunt like she does. So I have to MT arthas and she taunts it from me in phase 2.
My guild just started on LK last week. I was the OT with a paladin as the MT. He took point on most things but the only way we could get the first phase to go even relatively smoothly was to have me tank LK and him tank the trash. Everything other combination (me tanking trash, him tanking lk or him tanking + ghouls, me tanking shambling) was basically a recipe for disaster.
But I guess if nothing else, thanks for the reassurance that I'm not mentally challenged or anything cuz I can't hold aggro on trash. Another reason that I'm hopeful that Cata will bring good things for DK tanks.
Post by
woohaa
well you have 2pt10 bonus and the GoDnD so...i'm gonna have to say your doing what you can. The reason that when you pull and can hold compared to when the paly pulls and you can't pull any off is that paly aoe threat increases when they get hit. holy shield, and if they have someone giving them ret aura will generate a good amount of aoe threat, alongside their other abilities.
if you pull first then the palies aoe threat lowers a bit and also gives you a chance to spread around runestrikes. if your not tanking anything then your chance of runestriking anything is lower. If your guild wants you to have some of the mobs on you i'd talk with the other tank so that you can pull first and generate some early threat.
if they don't care then just grab 2 mobs with deathgrip and dark command and tank those. every now and then taunt a mob with dark command and do some threat to it.
Post by
apocalypsa
The best idea would be to tab-target. As in, DnD>IT>PS>Pest, and then tab after every HS/DS/RS. That way I've kept aoe aggro on ICC trash over a paladin tank that overgeared me by quite a margin, except for the target he was attacking.
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281449
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Post by
falcov
Who is off tanking with you?
Depends on the run. I'd say that most often it's either a druid or a paladin, but sometimes it's a warrior or another DK as well.
Post by
00bender00
You can keep aggro on aoe damage just fine, you can't however, if a dps is going single target on the wrong target, wich is what happens 90% of the time.
I.e. a hunter using volley after you have spread your diseases and laid your dnd wont aggro, but if he's doing aimed > chimera > multi shot > arcane shot etc on a target different then yours there is nothing you can do, but neither a paladin can handle single target damage threat using aoe abilities, consecration isnt much better really, hotr hits 3 targets (you can tab in that situation), and soc randomly hits 3 for poor damage. The difference lies maybe in holy shield doing 1k ticks, but thats 10 charges and should no more then equal your diseases.
Post by
146010
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Post by
falcov
Try being the OT for lich king with a paladin MT. I wish you luck in getting the ghouls off the MT without resorting to taunting them one at a time.
Yeah, doesn't happen. -_-
Post by
Thror
I have to tank alongside our paladin MT when I'm called in to do the job. Even as a frost DK I couldn't come close to her aoe threat. But then, she is much better suited to be taking the hits on trash anyway, thanks to her shield.
Just wanted to post a little comment on this, if a Frost DK is glyphed and specced for AoE (the frost spec on my DK), he can out-AoE everything except for Prot pallies, and even those have to be actually good. If you know your trade as a Frost DK tank, and run a PuG with a not-so-experienced prot pally, you can expect to tank most of the trash.
You can keep aggro on aoe damage just fine, you can't however, if a dps is going single target on the wrong target, wich is what happens 90% of the time.
I.e. a hunter using volley after you have spread your diseases and laid your dnd wont aggro, but if he's doing aimed > chimera > multi shot > arcane shot etc on a target different then yours there is nothing you can do, but neither a paladin can handle single target damage threat using aoe abilities, consecration isnt much better really, hotr hits 3 targets (you can tab in that situation), and soc randomly hits 3 for poor damage. The difference lies maybe in holy shield doing 1k ticks, but thats 10 charges and should no more then equal your diseases.
A ret pally running in (with foam on his mouth. i always imagine the dps players with foam around their mouths) and using Divine Storm <1,5 seconds after your Death and Decay WILL pull everything in its range to himself. Global Cooldowns are the hard cap for skill. You cant do more aggro per global cooldown than the global cooldowns allow you.
Post by
146010
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Post by
woohaa
A ret pally running in (with foam on his mouth. i always imagine the dps players with foam around their mouths) and using Divine Storm <1,5 seconds after your Death and Decay WILL pull everything in its range to himself. Global Cooldowns are the hard cap for skill. You cant do more aggro per global cooldown than the global cooldowns allow you.
hahaha...yes i agree with you on this one. ret palys love to do this one. they're always right on my heels when i'm running in and it usually goes something like this:
1. grab all the mobs and drop my dnd
2. ret paly divine storms...has agro on about 4 mobs
3. I cast HB and grab the mobs back
4. paly crusader strikes w/SoC and pulls back 2-3 mobs
5. DnD ticks along with my BB pull the mobs back
6. i attempt to hold agro over the paly by spreading rune strikes around.
sometimes the paly ends up tanking a mob or 2. in heroics not a big deal but it's funny in ICC10 when it happens.
Post by
falcov
Just wanted to post a little comment on this, if a Frost DK is glyphed and specced for AoE (the frost spec on my DK), he can out-AoE everything except for Prot pallies, and even those have to be actually good. If you know your trade as a Frost DK tank, and run a PuG with a not-so-experienced prot pally, you can expect to tank most of the trash.
The only unfortunate thing about this is that the ultimate solution would be to have an AOE tanking spec and a boss spec. The reason this is unfortunate is that my guild has more use with me having a tank spec and a dps spec rather than having a trash spec and a boss spec.
Sigh.. I just hope with the focus on Blood now as the single tanking tree we'll actually get some decent tanking love. I have never been happy with my threat generation since Unholy became obsolete as a tanking spec (and for some reason Frost just rubs me the wrong way, dunno why).
Post by
311488
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