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10.2.5
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10.2.6
Hell
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Post by
Skreeran
How many of you believe in Hell? Eternal, permanent suffering as punishment for our actions here on Earth. If 75% of the United States believes in it, there must be some of you here who believe it.
Let me ask you this: Who will go there? Will I?
For those of you who do not know, I am an atheist. I do not believe in god. In fact, I have some LaVeyan Satanist leanings in my philosophy.
Do you believe that because of what I think, because of the skeptical brain that I was born with—that God gave me, if you follow that belief—that I will be tortured with fire and pain and screams and suffering and anguish and thirst and terror and all manner of other tortures?
Do you think that people born into other religions will go there? Why?
If you think that I will go to Hell, are you okay with that? Are you content to let me continue on my path to infinite torture just so that you don't hurt my feelings or impose upon my right to my own beliefs? My right to my own belief is a fleeting thing, infinitely small when you consider that life is finite and Hell is infinite. Even if you were to save me, there would be billions of others that you cannot save. Are you okay with that? Is there anything that can be done about that? Or are they just doomed to eternal pain and suffering without any hope of salvation? How are they expected to know that it is your faith that is correct, and not theirs? How can you blame them for not believing what you believe, and believe that it is fair that they be tortured forever because of it?
Post by
165617
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
How many of you believe in Hell? Eternal, permanent suffering as punishment for our actions here on Earth. If 75% of the United States believes in it, there must be some of you here who believe it.I believe that something exists that can be described as 'eturnal' and 'negative'. Beyond that, I think there are many misconceptions and taking things literally from the bible that are meant to be figurative.Will I ?I believe it is my responsibility to tell you I hope that you don't, and that I CANNOT know. If in 100 years, when we are both dead, I found out that Skreeran were in some sort of inexcapable negative predicament that we understand as 'hell' right now, I would be sad. =(
Post by
165617
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
Which would defeat the purpose of Heaven...If you knew your family was being tortured for eternity how on Earth could you enjoy Heaven?
I think we have a flawed understanding of the concepts. I think we have filled in the blanks that were meant to be left as blanks with our own ideas. The video you linked was correct in this. I agree with a lot in it, actually. Some I don't obviously, but some I do.
Post by
327953
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Naxxos
The whole concept of hell seems idiotic to me. If there was a god, and he wanted to eternally punish his subjects for disobeying his rules, don't you think he'd send something more to us than a book and some clergymen to spread 'his word'? That he'd give us irrefutable proof that he existed and that if we did not supplicate ourselves before him he would send our eternal souls to some infernal pit? You mentioned skepticism. God would not have created us with the potential to question had he wished to control us in such a fashion. Has he wished us to obey his principles he would not have allowed his creations to question - only to accept. The way I see it, if what religion claims is indeed a reality, and there is a god, there can't be a hell. If he created us and left us essentially to our own devices (which one can't deny is the case) there could be no punishment. It's like god wants to be an authoritarian without providing any incentives to enforce his will.
That said, of course with the modern concept of hell, most of us would go there. Anyone who disobeys the moral code laid down by religion would certainly burn for eternity.
I'm definitely getting flamed the %$*# out for this one....
Post by
Skreeran
I'm definitely getting flamed the %$*# out for this one....Lol, puns.
Post by
327953
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
The whole concept of hell seems idiotic to me. If there was a god, and he wanted to eternally punish his subjects for disobeying his rules, don't you think he'd send something more to us than a book and some clergymen to spread 'his word'?
People would never be satisfied. Even if He were to come down from heaven, prove that He were God by doing miracles, and try to offer us all eturnal life, I think we would probably still try to kill Him... oh wait...
Quite honestly, if God were to come down to your living room, and make pigs fly, turn pepsi into coke, make Lindsey Lohan sober, and walk on water, giving you undenyable proof that He were God, then the undenyable proof you would not be able to deny. If you lack the ability to deny, what choice do you have but to do what He tells you? If followers really don't have a choice, then what fun is it to have followers?
Post by
Skreeran
The whole concept of hell seems idiotic to me. If there was a god, and he wanted to eternally punish his subjects for disobeying his rules, don't you think he'd send something more to us than a book and some clergymen to spread 'his word'?
People would never be satisfied. Even if He were to come down from heaven, prove that He were God by doing miracles, and try to offer us all eturnal life, I think we would probably still try to kill Him... oh wait...
Quite honestly, if God were to come down to your living room, and make pigs fly, turn pepsi into coke, make Lindsey Lohan sober, and walk on water, giving you undenyable proof that He were God, then the undenyable proof you would not be able to deny. If you lack the ability to deny, what choice do you have but to do what He tells you? If followers really don't have a choice, then what fun is it to have followers?Well, it's different when you put the people who aren't your followers in a pit of screaming fire and eternal torture.
Then tell me about the "fun" of having followers.
Post by
327953
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
Well, it's different when you put the people who aren't your followers in a pit of screaming fire and eternal torture.
Then tell me about the "fun" of having followers.
The fact that there are negative consequences to our negative actions doesn't make the good things not good. Honestly, I wish I could respond to your questions better. Our lack of real information leaves us without a complete understanding.
All I can say is, I hope that no matter what, you always find peace and contentment.
Post by
Patty
remember that god is a communist. follow his will or BURN!.. there's no Equal... u are his subordinate... and u must SERVE him! no questions asked!
You obviously don't understand the concept of Communism, or are attempting to troll.
Post by
Naxxos
If you lack the ability to deny, what choice do you have but to do what He tells you? If followers really don't have a choice, then what fun is it to have followers?
That would make god a child in a sandbox. If he really wanted us to believe in him, he'd give us more proof than he has. You can't be an authoritarian without enforcement. There's no point in even making laws if he created us and left us to our own devices without providing said proof. More evidence to portray religion as an artificial code of law implemented by ancient scholars to control an uneducated and fearful population.
Post by
Skreeran
Well, it's different when you put the people who aren't your followers in a pit of screaming fire and eternal torture.
Then tell me about the "fun" of having followers.
The fact that there are negative consequences to our negative actions doesn't make the good things not good. Honestly, I wish I could respond to your questions better. Our lack of real information leaves us without a complete understanding.
All I can say is, I hope that no matter what, you always find peace and contentment.What about when people don't think that their actions are negative? When they really are trying to do their best to be good, and simply following the wrong belief system, how is it fair to throw them into the furnace?
God would deny them the proof they need to change their ways, just so he can have more "fun" with his true followers?
Post by
393249
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
However, it is unreasonable to expect to understand what/why/how God does what he does. You can either accept the premise that He exists and will do things His way, or you can reject that notion and take your chances.How do I know which way is His way?
Post by
Naxxos
What about when people don't think that their actions are negative? When they really are trying to do their best to be good, and simply following the wrong belief system, how is it fair to throw them into the furnace?
God would deny them the proof they need to change their ways, just so he can have more "fun" with his true followers?
The fact that you are even asking these questions makes you an atheist (welcome to the party). Religion demands unquestioning acceptance - indeed, it requires it to be effective at all. This is why, in the olden days, such heinous methods of punishment were used by the church to force their subjects to submit. Nowadays such methods are not required or accepted by the other structures we have put in place (i.e. government) or by our society. Essentially, religion today has a 'believe what you will' air about it. Religious people think that all of us sinning, disobedient children of god will be smitten by the fire and brimstone of the furnaces of hell for eternity, while we are content thinking that they're all daft.
Post by
MyTie
What about when people don't think that their actions are negative? When they really are trying to do their best to be good, and simply following the wrong belief system, how is it fair to throw them into the furnace?I see it as more of a car trip. I love my God. I truely do. I would like to go see him. There are many different ways to go through life, much like a road system. God is represented by one location. I cannot get to him by going in other directions. I can for a time, go in the wrong direction, but I had better correct my direction if I want to go see God. There are many different 'neutral' decisions in life too. If I am a vegetarian, if I get married, if I watch the news or not, and this would be kind of like choosing to take a left and then a right instead of going right and then left. Neither are consequential to the outcome. Being a 'good' driver is not good enough to get me to my destination. I also much follow directions.God would deny them the proof they need to change their ways, just so he can have more "fun" with his true followers?I don't think the consequences suffered by those that do not reach the destination are for the benefit of those that do. I think that it must be very painful for God each time someone doesn't reach the destination, since He considers us all as His children.
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