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Oklahoma Introduces barbaric abortion law
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Post by
Squishalot
abortion needs to be ADVOCATED amongst parents who cannot financially support a baby as the government should not be held responsible for its well being.
You know, contraception would achieve the same goals without the risk of harming a life.
Actually, MyTie, what's your view on contraception? Is it something to be avoided as well, or something that is a better alternative to unprotected sex and subsequent abortion, in your opinion?
Post by
MyTie
Actually, MyTie, what's your view on contraception? Is it something to be avoided as well, or something that is a better alternative to unprotected sex and subsequent abortion, in your opinion?
In order to classify something as 'human' in a scientific sense, it must have the DNA of a human being. Human DNA is not formed until the egg is fertalized. At that INSTANT, human DNA exists and the (insert medical term here) is a human. Before that point, human DNA does not exist, so no human, from a scientific standpoint, dies as a result of contraceptive.
Post by
260787
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
Actually, MyTie, what's your view on contraception? Is it something to be avoided as well, or something that is a better alternative to unprotected sex and subsequent abortion, in your opinion?
In order to classify something as 'human' in a scientific sense, it must have the DNA of a human being. Human DNA is not formed until the egg is fertalized. At that INSTANT, human DNA exists and the (insert medical term here) is a human. Before that point, human DNA does not exist, so no human, from a scientific standpoint, dies as a result of contraceptive.
Er, gametes contain human DNA. They contain half the DNA of somatic cells, but human gametes still contain human DNA.
You're sure that Sperm and Egg each contain all the chromosomes necessary to classify it as a human? You're sure about that?
I mean, I could be wrong in all the research I've done....
Post by
260787
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
Actually, MyTie, what's your view on contraception? Is it something to be avoided as well, or something that is a better alternative to unprotected sex and subsequent abortion, in your opinion?
In order to classify something as 'human' in a scientific sense, it must have the DNA of a human being. Human DNA is not formed until the egg is fertalized. At that INSTANT, human DNA exists and the (insert medical term here) is a human. Before that point, human DNA does not exist, so no human, from a scientific standpoint, dies as a result of contraceptive.
Er, gametes contain human DNA. They contain half the DNA of somatic cells, but human gametes still contain human DNA.
Yes, but you're not killing them by expunging them from your body. We do that naturally anyway.
MyTie - so just to clarify - contraception is better than abortion? Is it something to be advocated and promoted to limit the need for abortion, or something to be avoided but a necessary evil if the alternative is abortion?
Post by
260787
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
MyTie - so just to clarify - contraception is better than abortion? Is it something to be advocated and promoted to limit the need for abortion, or something to be avoided but a necessary evil if the alternative is abortion?
I view it neutrally. As always, I'm willing to change my opinion though, if gorefiend is correct, or if provided more information that I am not aware of. =)
Post by
MyTie
You're sure that Sperm and Egg each contain all the chromosomes necessary to classify it as a human? You're sure about that?
I mean, I could be wrong in all the research I've done....
To classify it as a human
cell
, yes but to say that it contains
all
of the chromosomes necessary, no; hence the:
They contain half the DNA of somatic cells
Ok... Just as long as we are very clear that a sperm cannot be classified as a human, and an egg cannot be classified as a human, and a fertalized egg AT THE MOMENT it is fertalized, forms a unique, human, complete, DNA.
Post by
Squishalot
MyTie - so just to clarify - contraception is better than abortion? Is it something to be advocated and promoted to limit the need for abortion, or something to be avoided but a necessary evil if the alternative is abortion?
I view it neutrally. As always, I'm willing to change my opinion though, if gorefiend is correct, or if provided more information that I am not aware of. =)
That's fine, I was just curious about your opinion, no underlying argument. The official line of the Catholic Church (and quite a few other Christian denominations) is that contraception is frowned upon, as it prevents life from being created, I believe, so I wanted to see where your beliefs lay in relation.
Post by
73830
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
260787
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
Ok... Just as long as we are very clear that a sperm cannot be classified as a human, and an egg cannot be classified as a human, and a fertalized egg AT THE MOMENT it is fertalized, forms a unique, human, complete, DNA.
By this logic, a cell on my arm or in my liver is considered a unique human.
The difference between a sex cell and a somatic cell is that they are haploids and diploids, respectively. Once the two opposing sex cells interact and the egg becomes fertalized, it becomes a diploid; it will have 46 chromosomes which makes it no different than any other human, somatic cell, with respect to chromosomes.
Except that this particular cell has the innate ability to grow into being a baby over a 9 month period. I don't think impregnating someone with an arm cell or liver cell will have the same effect.
Post by
Skreeran
Ok... Just as long as we are very clear that a sperm cannot be classified as a human, and an egg cannot be classified as a human, and a fertalized egg AT THE MOMENT it is fertalized, forms a unique, human, complete, DNA.
By this logic, a cell on my arm or in my liver is considered a unique human.
The difference between a sex cell and a somatic cell is that they are haploids and diploids, respectively. Once the two opposing sex cells interact and the egg becomes fertalized, it becomes a diploid; it will have 46 chromosomes which makes it no different than any other human, somatic cell, with respect to chromosomes.
Except that this particular cell has the innate ability to grow into being a baby over a 9 month period. I don't think impregnating someone with an arm cell or liver cell will have the same effect.That's not what he said, though.
In order to classify something as 'human' in a scientific sense, it must have the DNA of a human being.
Human DNA is not formed until the egg is fertalized. At that INSTANT, human DNA exists and the (insert medical term here) is a human. Before that point, human DNA does not exist, so no human, from a scientific standpoint, dies as a result of contraceptive.
Post by
MyTie
Your arm cell is not unique. If you were to isolate it, the DNA would have the same DNA as you. The egg cell, as soon as it is fertalized, can be classified as human, and unique from any other organization of cells that can be classified as human.
Post by
57943
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
260787
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
Your arm cell is not unique. If you were to isolate it, the DNA would have the same DNA as you. The egg cell, as soon as it is fertalized, can be classified as human, and unique from any other organization of cells that can be classified as human.
Whether or not it is 'unique' is beside the point. Your point was that sperm and eggs do not constitute as human, but when they come together, they do.
In order to classify something as 'human' in a scientific sense, it must have the DNA of a human being. Human DNA is not formed until the egg is fertalized. At that INSTANT, human DNA exists and the (insert medical term here) is a human. Before that point, human DNA does not exist, so no human, from a scientific standpoint, dies as a result of contraceptive.
The only difference between these sex cells and somatic cells is the number of chromosomes. Even though they only contain 23 chromosomes, as opposed to 46, those 23 chromosomes still consist of human DNA. You cannot take sperm from a man and mix it with a chicken, and expect to get a zygote. The contents held within those chromosomes are human.
The DNA in sperm contain the DNA of the father. The DNA of the egg contain the DNA of the mother. When those DNA combine, they form the DNA of a human, who is neither the father or the mother. While you can say that a liver cell is part of a human being, and isolate who that being is through DNA testing, you would have to say that a fertalized egg is a human being, though DNA testing, and you wouldn't find a "parent" being for the cells through DNA testing because the fertalized egg is the human in its entirety. What I am saying, is that when an egg is fertalized, you can scientifically say that an entire and unique human being has been formed. A sperm is not that, and an egg is not that.
Post by
57943
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
Your argument is circular. If I remove a stem cell from my body and then kill myself, would you call that cell an entire human, since it too possesses everything needed to create a unique human being? Because if there's no other cells with the same DNA, it's unique, and one stem cell (and quite a bit of luck, just like with pregnancy) is all that's needed to grow a new human in a womb.You are a unique human being. A fertalized egg is a unique human being. A sperm in not a unique human being. An egg is not a unique human being. This is circular?Also, if I'm going to try to view this from your standpoint, how is a dead fertilized egg worse than one dead sperm and one dead unfertilized egg? Sperm + Egg = Fertilized Egg you know. I'm not trying to be "clever" here, I actually don't understand, they're genetically the same thing, only they happen to be in the same place.The sum is greater than the whole of its parts.
Also, it's fertilized, not fertalized, I'm sorry to nitpick on spelling but it bothers me.I don't care that I spelled it wrong. I don't care that it bothers you. I wonder, how did you know what word I was trying to spell? Is it because you were able to tell what it was I was communicating? If so, then my task of communicating to you was adequate. This is not a term paper, and you are not my professor. This is not a TPS report, and you are not my boss. This is a casual discussion among casual people. Don't try to make it more than it is.
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